FROM CULT TO CIVILIAN — HER JOURNEY OUT

Cold Open And Welcome

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hi, I'm Kim Alexis. Today in Paris, Dr. Kelly is showing his collection of spring clothes. Hi, I'm Kim Alexis with your ticket to adventure. I'm Kim Alexis, and I'm here in New York City. Got a great show coming up for you, so stay tuned. So,

Life Inside A Six-Wife Household

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Emily Powell, you are probably one of the most interesting people in a way of being able to start your life at a young age one way, from a polygamous family, and then to where you are now. So we're gonna take our audience through this journey of yours. And thank you for being so transparent. Um, you really started out in a family with 23 other brothers and sisters. Yes. You had one father, um, you had a mother, but your brothers and sisters were from six mothers?

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Yes. Um, my dad had six wives, um, as part of a fundamentalist Mormon cult, basically. Um, it's the religion that I grew up in. Thank you for that intro, by the way. That was quite an introduction. Um, so yeah, I have 23 siblings. Many of them are married now, so the family is huge. Yeah. But yeah, 20, 23 siblings, six, six wives, um, obviously one mom. My mom has six kids. So I have five full siblings, and then the rest are half.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

So, and where did you grow up?

SPEAKER_00 1:37

I grew up in Lehigh, Utah.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Okay. So take me through a typical, typical day when you were young, let's say six or so.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Okay, so I did go to public school. Um, lucky for me, it gave me kind of a window into a different world than than the the church that I grew up in because there were so many religious events that gave me something different. So a weekday was get up. Um, my dad was not there every day because he rotated one wife per night. So that must have been exhausting for him. Yes. Yeah. Um, so so we we would get up, have breakfast to go to school, come home. I mean, it was it was we were very free-range kids. It was like ride your bike to school or or or walk. Right. And what numbered child were you?

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Were you one of the olders?

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Yes, I'm fifth in my dad's kids. Okay. Third of my mom's. So three girls and then three boys from my mom. So I'm the youngest girl.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Okay. And you didn't have to wear specific, like the FDLS, for example, obviously they had clothing and different colors would represent the different families. Did you not have to worry about certain clothing?

SPEAKER_00 2:55

So our clothing was very modest. I couldn't wear anything that that was sleeveless or or revealing in any way. We dressed very modestly, but there was no, there were no restrictions on colors, things like that. Once you were married, you had to wear long sleeve, you know, every everything had to hit wrists, ankles, be very high neck. Um, but the kids, we could wear a t-shirt and shorts or jeans, or right. We dressed fairly normal in society until you were married in it. So as a kid, I was able to wear pretty normal clothes.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

So when you went to public school, people necessarily didn't realize that you were living in this different family life.

The Playdate That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Well, this is where this is where I found out that my family was polygamous. I I had a play date when I was in second grade with my best friend Nikki. She came to my house, we played. Um, her mom dropped her off and, you know, picked her up a couple hours later. Right. This was a Saturday. Monday, I go to school and she goes, Hey, I can't play with you anymore. And I was like, I'm probably eight years old. Okay, why? And she goes, Because your family is polygamous. That was my first, you know, that was my introduction into it too, in a way, because I was a fish in water until then. I had no idea that we were different. Right. When she said that, of course, I was on a mission to find out what that meant. So I went home, I asked my mom, and she explained it in simple terms for my second grade mind. Right. And I was, you know, that that was a moment for me, like, okay, we're we're different, and it's and it's not a great thing. I just lost a friend over it. Right. Kind of embarrassed. Um, and I would call my half siblings cousins at school. We all had the same last name and the same dad on our school paperwork. Right. But uh I would call them cousins because that's embarrassing to admit to. Well, after school would be your your family. Yes, right. Yeah, lots, lots of kids at the same school. And sometimes they overlap in a school year because there's all these moms having kids where you don't have to wait nine months or a year or any of that. It's like it overlaps. Right. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

So did you pick up in the so now you're kind of aware, you know, maybe that your friend Nikki had just one dad who stayed home every night, right? You start, you're on a journey to kind of figure things out, from what I've understood.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Yeah, I think at that point I was I was really ashamed of it and really embarrassed. Oh. And and would lie when people would ask because she spread it through the school. She actually called me five or six years ago and apologized. But you know, we were in second grade. Right. Like she she was like, What is this? And so was I. What is this? Right. So that's when I stopped um sharing anything about thing about my family at school.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

So who became your friends? Did you find other people from your church group that became friends, or did you just live your life isolated?

SPEAKER_00 5:55

So I had friends when I would go to church or the church-related events. I had friends that were of the same, you know, in the same church, but at school, it was a struggle. I mean, I I had friends, but I never let anybody get close enough to make that call again, where they would come over and they would see my family. I kind of kept play dates and and family-related things to only kids that grew up in the same religion as me.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Right. And how did your daily life as a religion

Church Structure And Learned Obedience

SPEAKER_01 6:27

go? Did you have to go daily?

SPEAKER_00 6:29

We didn't have to go daily. So a Thursday Thursday we had primary, which is just it's it's a gathering where you you have some singing, some uh somebody plans a lesson, you separate into different classes based on your age group, and you're taught. There was there was a lot of repetitive teaching. A lot. Um so Thursday was there was primary, and then Sunday, being a girl, I would not go to the first meeting. The first meeting was for men only. It was called priesthood meeting because men really hold all the power in a group like that. And they hold it's it's called the power of the priesthood. Um, they're given the power of the priesthood when they're 12. And girls never receive this. So I didn't go to that first meeting, and then there was Sunday school. Um, there was the first Sunday meeting. I think it was like 90 minutes of lessons, songs, same thing as primary, basically. And then you take a break, go home for lunch, and then there was sacrament meeting, they called it. Okay. So that was like the main, that was the main meeting. It was two hours of sitting very still. Wow. At a young age. Very young, yeah. Kit kids sit there and you you learn really young to sit there and sing the songs. What happens if you don't sit sit sit still? I I you're probably sent out. I sat still.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

I I was a very so you weren't rebellious? No. So you didn't mind this life except for the children, the friends that you didn't have, and not being able to have anyone over.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

When I was really little, it was just so normal to me. And to until that incident in second grade, it was so normal. I didn't mind it. Right. I started to learn how different things were with that second grade thing. And then over time, I you know, you're taught not to ask questions. Uh, but but over time, it's just like I did. I couldn't fight my my mind looking at this logically and going, wait, but this is so crazy. This is so different, this is so extreme, it's so unhappy.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Did you discuss it with other people in your family? Like, what are we doing here? No, no, okay, no. I mean, it's just going on in your mind, really.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

This is going on a lot in my mind, and it's it's you're it's very shameful to question things within that that cult. Okay. You don't ask questions, you're really given from a very young age, you're given a framework that is very fixed. Here are the answers, here's what we believe, here's what you do, here's what God wants you to do, and here's how you get to heaven. It's laid out.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Was that liberating or to me, it put me in a box. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Um, and you accept it because you're tiny and it's your parents are telling you this, your environment is telling you this, everyone who you trust and love around you is agreeing.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

And then you have the repetitive songs, scriptures, all the things that you you have at church, right? It's also reaffirming these things.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Ah, okay. So, but you but you grew up feeling loved. I mean, you had a good family life, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:45

I did grow up feeling loved. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that there's there's kids everywhere, so it's a lot of fun. Um Lehigh was a a small farm town when I when I lived there. Right. And it was just, it was, it was very free and fun, but there was always this thing, this thing that made my family so different. And and it felt like I needed to go all the way in or be out.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Right. So got let's say your brothers, and if there's one man and six wives, how did all your brothers get to marry, or did some of the men not marry?

SPEAKER_00 10:25

So I so so my older brother, um, he had two wives. He's passed away since in a in an accident, but he had two wives, and he's the only brother that that eventually married two or more than one, right? Really. Um, I have two sisters that are married to the same guy. He has three other wives, two.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Oh wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

That's a lot. Right. And um so so yeah, some of my siblings stayed in it. I I left, I would say I left in my heart and my mind when I was 14.

Guilt As Control And Silent Doubts

SPEAKER_01 10:59

What triggered that?

SPEAKER_00 11:01

A lot of questions, a long, it was it was a slow burn to get there. Just I'm I'm such a naturally happy person, too. And it is such a hard way to live. It's so against society, it's so against the grain of peaceful home life. It's very chaotic. There's so many gears, so many moving parts. But to turn my back on everything I knew as far as my framework with God, the afterlife, all these big questions we have in life. Right. Everything was answered for me. So to start questioning those things, did you feel unstable ground.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Right. So so you started questioning at 14. Did you feel guilt?

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Your guilt is built into the framework. Guilt is intended to control people inside this in fear, right? A hundred percent. I mean, g guilt is kind of misplaced or misfiled from the time you're teeny tiny. You're taught to feel guilty about most things.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Um, so yeah, it it feels really terrible in the beginning to ask questions. It's really uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

So, did you at 14 you had to have at some point started to either talk to people in the outside world, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

And that pretty much you were open to possibilities of another way of living?

SPEAKER_00 12:30

I wouldn't even say I was open to other ways of living. I didn't really know the possibilities. I hadn't explored it. I just knew in my inside of me that this this box is too small for me. I knew I was bigger. I knew I was, I couldn't, I couldn't conform to this level. I mean, I was I was a very good kid. I wasn't rebellious. I wasn't I wasn't breaking the rules. I wasn't sneaking out, I wasn't drinking, I wasn't doing any of those things. Right. But I just felt there's there's more. Like I I knew it. It was an energy inside of me that was too big for this. Right. Did so were girls allowed to have dreams of a career? Oh, you're taught not to be educated. Some some do, and they kind of break through that a little bit, but you're you're really supposed to be very small in your your presence, your opinion, your education.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Um As a woman. As a woman. How about the guys? How about your brothers, siblings?

SPEAKER_00 13:34

I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot of men who don't go to school, but they're in they're in the trades. They don't they don't necessarily go to like a you know college and and become a doctor, let's say. A lot of them stay in construction and they'll do they'll do the trades there. It's very common. I mean, they're very hard workers. Right. These men have huge families, lots of mouths to feed, wives, kids. Right. It's gotta be expensive. It's very expensive. So, what did your dad do? So my dad owned a car dealership for a while. He he's he imported cars from Canada back and forth. He was always in cars to some level. Right. And he he worked hard. Yeah, we we weren't we weren't wealthy by any standard. Every money was always tight when I was little. Um, we never wanted for food. It wasn't that type of a situation, but he he had to work really hard. And he still came home and saw the kids and fixed our bikes and mowed the lawns. And I don't, I don't know how he did it all, but so he did.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Did your mom, who was one of six wives, did she have her own, did he have six houses for each wife and family?

SPEAKER_00 14:44

So it started smaller, so one home with my mom. She was the first wife, and then his second wife uh was downstairs. She had it, she had a room and and a like a space down there, then his third wife. And then as the wives came over time, and and more kids came too, it got bigger. So he bought another house and then another house. And and so there were there were several houses by the time he had six wives and 24 kids.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Was there any jealousy with these mothers? Could you you could pick that up as a child?

SPEAKER_00 15:16

I I don't even, I mean, you're supposed to hide it, you're not supposed to have those feelings as a woman. It's you're supposed to suppress that. Right. You're not, you know, you're not allowed to feel that way. But we're human.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Was there grumbling under her breath sometimes? So much. I would be grumbling all the time. So much.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Yeah. And and the first wife is kind of the public wife, where let's say there's a business event for my dad, she's his legal wife, and so naturally she goes with him.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

And and is the the wife in public. So that causes some some jealousy, rightly so.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Um, but being the first wife's kids, you also get to participate in more socially than than the other kids get to.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Um so it was that you were allowed to be in the outside world, right? It wasn't forbidden or unholy. I mean, you were allowed to venture out and go like to the grocery store by yourself.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Yeah. Yeah. I I was able, I I feel like public school was the best access I had to other, anything other than that, and what I the way I grew up. Um, but yeah, regular grocery stores. Um, I played sports, I played basketball in these little little leagues when I was, you know, a kid. And I played sports in high school. So extracurricular stuff I did too. Right. Which that's when I built friendships outside of my my home and my family and my community that I grew up with. And that really it opened my eyes. Yeah. But I was still lying to everybody. My friends would ask me in high school if my family was polygamous because it never died. After second grade, the cat was out. Oh. The cat was out in the back, and I could never hide it again.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

And I try as I may, and I tried. Right. Okay, but now, so you're saying you're 14, and that was was it one specific thing that started that journey, one spark, one instance, or it was just as you were maturing and aging and starting to think about your future?

SPEAKER_00 17:25

I think it was me finally able to accept my my own questioning without feeling guilty about that, without beating myself up about that in my mind, right? Right. Um it was it wasn't one thing. There were so many things along the way that were so weird. It was there were so many things that happened in the first, you know, 14, 16 years of my life that now I look back on. Right. Where you kind of accept it when you're in it. You accept that people get married to men very young, you accept the clothes that the adults have to wear, you accept the the rituals. For for example, the sacrament cup is shared. It's it's a tall glass that's shared among 20 people, maybe, and and everyone drinks out of the same glass, same water. And if you get the end of that glass, you can imagine it's warm. The word is dregs. There's there are lip marks all around it. I mean, that that kind of stuff. You're like, okay, I'm gonna because you you believe that that this is supposed to cleanse you. This is this helps you with you know your your sins being forgiven, these things. So you do it right now. Looking back, I'm like, whew.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Well, did I mean if somebody had a cold doing that, did the whole community get a cold?

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Yes.

unknown 18:52

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

It's a super spreader.

unknown 18:55

Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

So it's wild, but I I didn't I didn't have the guts to say I'm done going to church until I'm not drinking that. Oh yeah. I I didn't have the guts to do that until I until I stopped going to church because you have all these eyes on you. You have your parents, you have your grandparents, everybody's watching. And if you don't partake, right, that's a statement that you don't feel worthy. And then you have a question from your parents or your grandparents going, What did you do?

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Okay. So then now you're starting to do this questioning, you're 14, and you started to obviously get different thoughts and feelings. And so take me through that. So you did your husband, future husband, start this transition of leaving?

SPEAKER_00 19:42

He did not yet. Um, we ended up meeting several years later. Okay. Um, which is another fun story. But um yeah, I just you just start allowing yourself to open your mind to other possibilities of truth.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Um and that that's a slippery slope because this this entire thing is built on you not asking questions. It's built on you staying small, obeying the rules, doing what you're told. And if you have if you have the inkling or like the guts to start moving away from that, it's really scary, right? But it's really brave too. Right. Because you're you're so indoctrinated. You're brainwashed from the time you're tiny. But you did have the guts. I did have the guts, and I was terrified of okay, what is God gonna think of me? Because God, you know, I believed at the time, God knows every thought I have. I know. See, he knows my parents don't know yet, but he knows. So it's like, I'm kind of I'm nervous, but these thoughts are here. Um, my mind feels like I can't stay this small.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

I can't live this way. I I don't want to grow up and share my husband and live the way I've watched my mom live. I could see it. I could see the the it's it's such a drain of of your life, of your your energy to to give everything to something where you're you can't be you.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

There's there's not a lot of individuality, there's not a lot of opportunity for growth. It's just like here's your set of rules, and and that's where you stay.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

So what was that final transition where you was it leaving the community? Was it going off to college? What was it?

SPEAKER_00 21:34

So finally one day I told my mom.

Saying No And Stopping Church

SPEAKER_00 21:37

Oh, you did. I told my mom I'm done going to church. To her extreme disappointment. You can imagine she wasn't very happy with that. Um and I think she she started to blame the fact that I went to public school, my friends' influence outside of of the polygamous group, things like that. She wasn't wrong. I I had friends and and Other things that I was very interested in. Um, so I told her I'm done going to church. So I stopped. And that that was a huge transition point for me because it was the first time in my life that I said no to my parents and to the way that I grew up.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

So, what that first Sunday when you weren't at church, what'd you do? I don't even remember.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

I'll be shaking in my boots, wondering if I'm gonna get struck by lightning.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Right, right. But was it liberating at the time then? Like, oh, I got away with that.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

I don't think it was liberating. I think it was more terrifying because I'm I'm stepping uh away from something that's truly all I know. And I'm starting to let go of the framework that that right there is is a very insecure space. Right. So I I think it and it and it happens over time where I stopped going and then over time it became more comfortable not to go.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Did other people did people follow behind you? Like if Emily's not going, I'm not going.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

I don't remember it happening really quick like that, but yes. I mean, eventually all of my mom's kids left.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 23:16

All of them.

unknown 23:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

I mean, you would think if you could find just one person to be there with you, it would have made it so much easier for you.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Absolutely. It's it's really scary to to go on your own and be be at the forefront of this thing that you know is gonna disappoint your parents and your grandparents and a lot of people around you. I knew I was gonna have, I knew I was going to lose all of my childhood friends in there, and I did, all of them. And it you you just there's just there was something, and I'm so grateful for this. There was something in me that knew I was just too big for that.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

My my spirit, my soul, my energy, whatever that is, it's like I can't, I can't be held down like this. But like handcuffs, and and it it it really is a a situation where you're mentally handcuffed.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

But you hold the key. Ah you just don't know it yet.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

But then but then it's like as I realized that setting myself free was the scariest thing I ever did. And how did that look? That looked like I stopped going to church, right? Uh, started reading books that were that were not my religious books.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Where'd you find those? Library?

SPEAKER_00 24:33

The library. My mom had a whole thing of encyclopedias because you know, we didn't Google wasn't so easy back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

No, we used to have Britannica encyclopedias, right? Yeah, that's how you do your homework.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

And I I had a very dear friend in high school that she she was the one that kept asking me, saying, I I know your family's polygamous, and you can tell me. And I lied to her as long as I could. And finally she was like, Emily, I know it. And it's okay. I'm I'm still gonna love you. Right. I'm still gonna be your friend.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

That right there, she she was so that friendship was so life-changing for me because the first time ever somebody was like, Hey, I'll accept you, and I'm not I'm not leaving your side if you just tell the truth. Oh so being able to be honest and real with her. Right, that was the first time I started to own it and go, okay, it is the truth, it is my story, still with max embarrassment and shame and all the all the feels like oh gosh, but don't tell anybody, please. Because I don't want everybody to know. And she was she was she was very good to me. And finally I just told her, yes, it's true. And and she was a safe space for me outside of that.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Oh, that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Yeah, she was very much a bridge for me, right? From in to out. Right.

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SPEAKER_01 25:58

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Youth Conference And Meeting Her Husband

SPEAKER_01 26:27

So, what was your final out then? Did you have one moment where it was, I mean, obviously at some point you left.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Yeah, I left. So I never really went back to church consistently after 16. Okay. Um, but I my mom was trying everything she could do to get me back in it. And she said, if you will go to this, it's it was called youth conference, and it was a weekend of fun and some religious uh activities, meetings, things like that for youth in in the polygamous group. She said, I'll pay for you to go, I'll send you with your dad's credit card to the mall, and you can buy three new outfits and a dress. Because I didn't have any church dresses left. It was like it, I was done. Right. So I was like, you know, $100 jeans. Okay, okay, I'll do it. Wow. I'll suck it up. So I took his card, I went to the mall, shopped for myself, bought those nice jeans. Thank you, Dad. Yeah. Um, and and I went. And that is where I met my I was 17 at the time. Okay. So I went for that weekend, and that's where I met who would eventually become my husband. Um, and and he he eventually left too because I told him I wouldn't go on a date with him unless he left. And he left.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Boy, see, you have such strength inside of you.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Thank you. Yeah. I've I I look back on that and I'm like, I was very sure that I was done. I was very sure to, you know, go back in it, see all my friends. And of course, there's this warm welcome too, because you're they're like, you're back.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Right?

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Yeah. No, just visiting. Just visiting for the clothes. I was there for the clothes. And they were cute. Right. Okay. So now you've met somebody who's also thinking. Was he at this point thinking of leaving?

SPEAKER_00 28:21

I don't think he was thinking of leaving. You were the seed that I I was I was done. And and he eventually he lived in Montana, which was a branch of the same group. And in a that's more of a compound up there where they had the post office, fire department, things like that, all on the same property. So that was a little more closed off than the life I grew up with. Um, so anyway, he he moved to Utah. Uh, he moved to the city neighboring the city that I grew up in, American Fork. I lived in Lehigh. He he moved to American Fork, became friends with my brother, um, and just kind of got closer and closer to the family. And and eventually we had a conversation where I said, I'll go on a date with you if you leave. Because he was he was trying and trying, and and I was like, I'm not gonna not gonna date a guy that's that's in this, I'm not interested in that. So he left. Wow. We we never looked back.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

So you went on this date free and kind of guilty, liberated, all these feelings going through your mind, plus you might be falling in love.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Yeah, I I I felt powerful because I knew what I wanted. I knew let me rephrase that. I knew what I didn't want.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

I didn't know what I wanted yet.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Right. Well, because the world was so new and unexplored, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Well, yes, there's exactly there's a space where when you break down all of the framework, or you don't even break it down, you let it go.

The Void After Leaving Certainty

SPEAKER_00 29:54

When you let go of the framework you were handed as a little kid, there's this profound space and emptiness, there's a void that you desperately want to fill because you're used to all these gears moving constantly in your mind. It it rules this, that, this is what God is, this is what God wants, this is this is when you're you're a good person. Everything is based on the framework. And and when that's gone, right, it's the scariest, most empty feeling and space that you've ever known. And so I look back on that now as the most beautiful space ever. Because for the first time in your life, it's real, it's not given to you. It's like, okay, now I can start to rebuild this, and then now I can hear my own thoughts, I can hear my own feelings, and I can rebuild this from a space that is my own. And it's it's one tiny little step at a time to stay grounded, right? Reset those roots in okay, what do I believe now? What do I want now? Especially as a woman, too, because your opinion is not as valuable as your husband's or your father's. You thought that. That yes, because that's how I grew up. Yeah. Right. Especially as a girl, going, wait, am I smart enough to handle this? Right. Am I strong enough? And and that that space, from that space, you rebuild you for the first time.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

So did you do that while you were dating him, or did you get, did you feel like you needed to marry right away to have that support with him?

SPEAKER_00 31:41

I feel like it took me a decade to do that. It took me some time. So I got married when I was 19.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

We we finally went on our first date when I was 19, because that's how long it took to um for him to move closer, for him to leave, all of that.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Yeah. Now, did when you got married, were your parents and sisters and everyone, did they go to the wedding?

SPEAKER_00 32:04

So I got married outside. My mom was not happy about the wedding and not happy that it was going to be a very traditional but not religious wedding.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Right. Did your dad pay for it? He did. So then you get married. Your dad pays for it, you get married. Yes. And now you're a woman who is more or less starting to venture in another world, making some of your own decisions. Work. And was your husband allowing you to make some of these and decisions and exploring who you wanted to be?

SPEAKER_00 32:36

So, yes, we we really started, and and I guess it's it's kind of an individual journey, even though I was married. It's like rebuilding your entire belief system on what, right? So I remember starting to listen to podcasts as soon as that was a thing. I listened to a lot of audiobooks and different schools of thought, different ideas, things like that. I mean, I didn't have my first drink of alcohol until I was 24. I think it took me that long to have my first sip of alcohol because that's how scared I still was. That's how much it was still in me to fear these things that I was taught never to do. Right. Because in a fundamentalist Mormon religion, you can't drink coffee, there's no alcohol. It's it's very restrictive on fun.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Right. Well, you had toys though, right? When you were growing up. Uh-huh. We had toys. Yeah. Because I read the FDLS didn't even have toys, movies.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Yeah, that's an even smaller box.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Yeah, we had movies, we had music.

unknown 33:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Yeah. All right. So how long did it then take you with your husband to have your first child?

Marriage Motherhood And Self-Trust

SPEAKER_00 33:51

So we waited eight years. Did okay. So I was, yeah, I was 28. He was born in 2014.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

He's 11 now.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

Yeah, I know. I got to meet both your boys. Yes. Yeah. Um, so that was a journey, all of a sudden, motherhood. And I assume that was a safe space because, more or less in your old religion, that was something that you were supposed to do, right? Have children.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Oh, yes. It was so natural for me. I felt like this is this is a huge life transition that I've waited for for so long, and I loved becoming a mom. That was that was so purposeful for me to give the time and energy to somebody else like that. Because my husband, my now ex-husband and I had built uh an electrical contracting business from the ground.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

And by the time I had my first son, he was transitioning into solar. So that's when I started to stay home and not work with him. So I was a stay-at-home mom um from the time my younger or my yeah, my oldest son was born.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

And so now you have children. And were you going to any church? No.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Okay, no church. We were, we we'd never went to another church. We never really um kind of landed in a in a structured religious setting again. And for me, that felt like home is here for me. Right. I didn't feel like I needed to have that structure again. It was like this road back to myself where where I settled is a very open and free belief system. It's it's far less fixed than the one I grew up with. It would, it's I I let I my entire belief system now is I know that I don't have all the answers and I'm okay with that. I do believe in a higher power. And and I do feel like my moral compass is very strong. I feel like a lot of that comes from here, right? Rather than something external. Right? It's it's very opposite of the way I grew up in that everything came, answers, this, that, rules, all of that came from outside of me. And now it was like a very long road back to myself. Where now it's I'm I'm very free in my thinking and my idea of what God is and and answers to the hard questions in life. I feel very open, very teachable, but but also I I just don't like to say, I know that this is true. I know this and I know that. I feel like I have beliefs. I believe this, I believe that.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

You're like on a lifelong journey.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Yeah. It's it's exactly. It's it started a long time ago, and I continue to learn every day. I love Stoic philosophy. That's a place that feels like like very reasonable, very logical, very happy way to live. I love listening to books on that and studying that. Um, but but definitely not a religious set of rules. I feel like I my guide is in here.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

But you do have boundaries. I mean, you do have some healthy boundaries. It's just ones that you chose yourself, correct?

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Exactly. And that that is so liberating, especially as a woman coming from that. That was that is such a liberating space to be because I'm trusting myself.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

I'm validating my own opinion, my own logic, my mind, where you're taught to understand that you're teeny tiny, you're supposed to stay teeny tiny.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

And submit, submit, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:52

And be submissive, follow the rules. Here's your set of rules. Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

You do this. But you don't mind rules, it's just that you now choose. Not, I don't know. You you can put you've been already putting it in so many great ways that you're more or less you've figured some things out. Uh-huh. You've got your own healthy boundaries, you're living life the way you choose to. You're trying to learn and discover if you're still on the right path, right? You still question is this the way to go? Is this the way to go? And always feeding yourself. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

I feel like I I love listening to somebody with a differing opinion too.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Because if something can change my mind, I appreciate that. I love learning. I love growing. I love evolving and becoming a better, happier, stronger version of myself. Right. And and walking the road that I did and and still continue to uh to some degree, but it was much more difficult in the beginning of all this. Walking that was the most powerful and worthwhile thing I have ever done because I got to know myself along the way. Right. And and it it changed the course for my kids, absolutely. Their kids. You know, it's like it's what you're handed is not always what you want to pass on. Right. And and I'm so proud that I didn't. And that I they they will grow up in in such a different able to be themselves kind of home. And and they'll they'll get to choose. I tell them all the time, this is what I've chosen. If I learn something better, if I learn something that makes more sense or feels better to me, I'm gonna do that. And that's okay. We're always learning.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Right. And that's a that's a pretty good message to give your children, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:43

I think it's very happy for them.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

What happens when your kids go back and meet all of your all the relatives and what are their thoughts there?

When Dad Left And Family Reconnected

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Okay, that I love this question because they have so many cousins. Okay. And my kids, so for example, I get my sisters who are married, the two of them that are married to the same guy, when their Christmas card comes in, it's it's very interesting because it's the entire family. It's the dad, the five wives, and all the kids.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

And my older son, several years ago, he looked at that and he goes, Is this because of divorce? He was like, How? So they've asked a lot of questions and they understand that I grew up in an extreme religion and that my dad, their grandpa, had six wives and all these kids. Um, but they are very close. So my dad ended up leaving several years after I did. Okay. Um, he ended up divorcing his wives.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

All of them.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

All of them. My mom's was the legal divorce, obviously, because she's the only legal wife.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

So the the other five, it's just a religious divorce, which is it's like instant, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:49

Well, what happened to them? They got a house?

SPEAKER_00 40:51

What what yeah? So he still provided financially for everybody. Wow. Kids, the whole thing. I mean, I remember him still showing up to fix things like a broken refrigerator. So he still took care of his responsibilities. He's a good guy. He is one of my favorite people on earth. Oh, good. Yeah. And he so he ended up remarrying several years later. Oh, he did. Yes, to to my stepmom to one. She was never, yes. So he left the religion. Right. Um, did the same thing, broke down his framework, rebuilt himself, and remarried his current wife, who is also one of my favorite people on earth. My stepmom. Oh, good. Yeah, we talk almost every day, and she's just, I'm so lucky to have her.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

So you have a good support system.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Such a good support system. I'm so lucky. Oh, good. Yeah. So over like the last 20 years since he left, he's also become a new version of himself. He was raised with the same framework and had all these same battles. So he and I have have this journey very much in common in a lot of ways. Even though his was different because he had the wives, the kids, etc.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

He had more to disconnect than you did, probably. A lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

A lot more. Yeah. Um, but he he still is very close with his kids. We all get together. Everybody, there's so much love in the family. It it kind of blows my mind because he had his 65th birthday party last September. Right. And his kids came, we're all there. You know, those that have spouses brought their spouses. And we're celebrating our dad, who we all love so much, with all walks of life. Right. Some of them are uh polygamous. There's there's some that are like mainstream Mormon, kind of like a like LDS. Um, a lot of us that are not religious at all, some people in the Christian religions, and it's a spectrum of choices that everybody's made. And there's so much love and acceptance and acceptance. It it's actually really special. It is really good energy among all the siblings and my dad, and yeah, he he makes a huge effort to stay close to the kids. Yeah. And no matter what they've chosen.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Right. I love it. All right. So explain then you have ventured off now again and deciding to be a mom on your own.

Divorce Single Motherhood And New Plans

SPEAKER_00 43:19

Yes. So now I'm a single mom. I made that decision because sometimes the hard thing is the right thing. Often the hard thing is the right thing. And there's there's a strength in me from the the first time I left what I knew.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

And and I've I've done hard before, so I can do hard again.

SPEAKER_02 43:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Right. Right. It builds a confidence in you and a resilience and a balanciness that you you can then take through life. So yes, I I um have been a single mom for about 18 months.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

And you yeah, so when you started when you're married to your husband, you started in your Because I've had two divorces. And there's something like, this is just not right. And it took me a long time. And then the thing that was my final straw was always something very small.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

A dumb little comment, a dumb little something, but it's like that's it. And they're like, what do you mean that's it? And I'm like, no, I'm done.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

Were you like that?

SPEAKER_00 44:21

Or this was another huge leap of faith. Going, I don't know what's on the other side of this.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

But what I know is hard things are worth it. It's worth doing because I knew it was the right thing.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

The right thing is always worth doing. No matter what.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

No matter how hard it's gonna be. And I knew I had the uphill battle of my life. Um and never have I ever felt so confident in my ability to do hard things as I do today. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

Because that takes such strength, and that's such a good example for your kids, for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

I appreciate that because kids are such a factor in divorce. It's yes, it is so scary to make that choice.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

Even though I knew it was the right thing. I knew it was gonna be so painful for them.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

But I also know they're tough.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

Yeah, they're good kids.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

And and they're gonna be, they're gonna bounce. And and I do think kids do as well as you do in a divorce to some degree. They saw their mom thriving and and I do have an amazing support system. And that I I think that my mental health and the strength I have speaks to that too. Yes. Um but but they they've seen me grow and become bigger in my energy, in my spirit, my soul, able to stretch bigger than I ever have. And and really divorce and leaving a cult, I do think both of those are a long road back to yourself.

SPEAKER_02 45:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

And never have I ever loved myself so much as when I when I do these hard things and overcome.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

But it comes from a place, it's not narcissism. You're it's just this inner strength that you have, which is so wonderful. So is this something that what's next for you? Is this part of your story? What what do you see yourself doing?

SPEAKER_00 46:19

So I'm in interior design school. All right, good. I have been since September 2024. So we'll see where that goes. I'm always going to be a mom. That'll be my first priority, of course. And my kids being 11 and 8, we still have a lot of years of little, little kid years, hopefully.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

Yeah, they go fast though, but take it from me.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

My oldest is gonna be 40. My gosh.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

They're like, how does this happen? There's my kids feel so big already, but I'm also in a sweet spot. We're not there are no diapers and they're not driving.

SPEAKER_03 46:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

So I'm loving the spot that they're in, but they're also busier and they're they're getting their their lives with sports and they play piano and they're in school and all these things. And so I have more time to develop myself. So uh I'm in school, I model from time to time, not like you did. But every once in a while I'll do that. And so, yeah, we'll see, see where it takes me. Keep raising my babies.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

There you go. So you don't have necessarily a game plan, you're just open to growing, learning, and seeing where it takes you.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

I I've learned not to be too attached to the outcomes because when you break down all your framework like that, it's like, okay, I don't know where this is gonna go. I'm gonna go one step at a time. And where the staircase is lit, I'll step and I'll step and I'll step.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Ah. So I don't know. So it's not that you're really worried about disappointment. It's more that you just trust that God has the path for you.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

I totally trust. I actually I feel like I'm I'm going with the flow of life and that if if there's wind in my sails with something and it's it's working and it's not always fun. I mean, it's hard work.

SPEAKER_03 48:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

But it also there's an energy behind it. I'm gonna go with that.

SPEAKER_03 48:11

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

And I I'll I'll be I'll have my interior design school done within a year. So I'm very excited about that. There you go. See where I can take that. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

Well, I love it. I truly appreciate you being on. You have been a wonderful example of someone who is unexpired and you are still so young, you still have so much to give. Thank you. So I thank you so much, Emily.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

Oh, thank you for having me. How fun! I appreciate you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

Yeah, good, good job. Thank you. Thanks for watching the

Final Reflections And Where To Connect

SPEAKER_01 48:43

show. If you have any questions for me or you want any more information, go to Kim Alexis.com.