THE ITALIAN VALUES BEHIND VINNY DEL NEGRO'S NBA SUCCESS

Welcome And Vinny's Early Roots

SPEAKER_01 0:04

I am Kim Alexis. In terms, Mr. Kelly is showing his collection of spring clothes. I'm Kim Alexis with your ticket to adventures. I'm Kim Alexis, and I'm here in New York City. Got a great show coming up for you. So stay tuned. So, Vinny Del Negro, thank you so much for coming in today. I love it. Finding successful people that live in Phoenix. So thank you so much. Yeah. So I love that you were obviously when you look at your height, I'm sure you were, were you tall at a young age?

SPEAKER_00 0:40

No, I was, well, I was tall at a young age, but then I didn't grow for a while. So I was like at the center on my 810 basketball team. And then I was like 5'4 in my freshman year of high school, and I was a point guard. And then I transferred schools and I grew a ton. And then I was like six feet or six one, my sophomore. It was like crazy. Right. I had bad knee problems. I grew so fast. And then by the time I had um graduated, I was like six three, going on six, four. And then at NC State, I was six four. They listed me at six five, but I was six four.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Ah. So when you were young, did you play other sports also, or did you always love basketball?

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Well, I always gravitated to basketball. I just kind of dribbled the ball to school, put in my locker, dribbled at home, um, you know, shoveled snow so I could raise some money to go to summer camps, played at every local outdoor court, indoor court wherever I could play basketball. But I had a ton of friends in an Italian neighborhood, and we loved playing soccer, played soccer growing up. Um, and then in high school I ran track.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Oh, you did?

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Yep. And you know, but I, you know, I played a little hockey growing up, I played a little football growing up, kind of kind of tested everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Um, but obviously I always gravitated toward basketball because that was kind of my first love.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Oh, yeah. So that definitely rose to the top.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

So when you were in high school, did you start noticing that you were better than other people? When was it that you found like you might make this a career?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Well, I had a very um strict Italian dad. So you're always trying to please you know, that capacity of kind of his vision. My dad was a very good basketball player. Um, you know, he he played for ADOF rep at the University of Kentucky. And he kind of taught me in the backyard, coached me growing up. So he was always kind of pushing me. He probably saw more in me than I did at that time as a kid growing up, trying to figure it out. Um, but as I got bigger and just kind of working on it, and for me, it was it was just a love. It was a passion for me to how do I get better in the backyard? What drills am I going to do? How do I improve? And that kind of started at an early age. Um, and then as you get in high school and you know, you're starting to win some championships or win some awards or whatever, obviously that kind of boosts your confidence. And then you go from that confidence to like, well, how far can I take this? And then it just kind of continues to spearhead.

Coach Valvano And The Recruitment Pitch

SPEAKER_00 3:02

And then I was fortunate to be recruited by a lot of schools uh coming out of uh Suffield Academy. And I chose uh North Carolina State with coach Jim Balvano.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Ah, that was a a fortuit, fortuitous choice.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

It was um, I I actually thought I was gonna go to Kentucky because I had gone to summer camps there in junior and senior year of high school, and um was like the MVP of offensive MVP of the camp and Kentucky's recruiting me, and the assistant coach was my father's roommate in college, Dick Parsons, and and uh just kind of loved Kentucky growing up. But then I was I took a college trip, uh high school trip to DePaul University at the time in Chicago, because they were ranked very high with the famous coach Ray Myers, and then uh took my trip to Kentucky, and then I I took my trip to uh NC State. And it just kind of the uh there's a lot of stories there, my recruiting trip, but how Coach Valvano recruited me when he came to Suffield Academy and the Italian dinners we had, there was just kind of a comfort factor for my family, my cousins, my uncles. Everyone was like, You're going to Kentucky? No, well, you need to go and check this Italian Paisan out a little bit, kind of how it worked. Um, and a quick story is Coach Valvano comes to NC State and they're recruiting me a week before Kentucky had come, and they had shown a video of me, and they came in their Kentucky Blue Blazers and Coach Joe B. Hall at the time, and great. Obviously, Kentucky is a massive basketball program. And Coach Valvano came in the next week with his assistant coach Tama Betamarco, who came to a lot of my high school games as well. And they came in their Nike sweatsuits, and we were down at my coach Kenny, my prep school coach's house with his wife and my parents and my sisters and stuff. And they show a video of me hitting a shot to win a championship and things. And Coach Valvano, literally, right where you are, he jumps up and he pulls me off the sofa and grabs me. And we start wrestling in my my coach's living room, like literally wrestling. And my dad's in that chair there, and the coach of Benamarco then jumps on and we're wrestling. And I'm obviously much bigger. And I look up on my dad, I'm like, I don't do I like pin the guy down. Like, what do I do? And Coach Falvano looks right up on my dad on the he's laying, we're laying on the floor, and he looks up and he goes, Big Vin, my dad's name was Big Vin, I'm hungry. Where are we going to eat? Because food was always on the top of an Italian person's mind, right? Where are we gonna get our next bowl of pasta? So luckily, my my cousin Michael Borriello ran an Italian restaurant. So my dad called him and we ended up going there. And then by the time we got there back then, those cell phones or whatever was, you know, the da-da-da-da-ding, da da, you know, the the big thing called dial the phone.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

The dial phone.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

So we end up at the Italian restaurant. By that time, there's 20, 30, 40 of my cousins, neighborhood people, everything there. And Coach Valvano, I'll never forget it. We're all sitting there, and Coach Valvano basically said, you know, because he knew I was thinking about Kentucky and other schools, and he hits his the glass and says, Everybody, got a few words to say. And he says, just so you guys know, that every Sunday in North Carolina, my mother, Angelina, and my father Rocco, we have a huge Italian dinner at my house every Sunday. And if Vinny signs to NC State, everyone here is always welcome on my house for Sunday dinner.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

So now that's the way to recruit. Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

So he was a professional recruiter, right? So, well, that ended up being dinner goes. Now, all of my cousins and my uncles like, well, you're not going to Kentucky. You're gonna go with the Italian. We're coming down to see you in North Carolina, we're gonna go to dinner at his house, we're gonna have fun, go to the games, da-da-da. And that's pretty much how I ended up at NC State.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

So it was fine for you that all these other people are telling you what you're supposed to do.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Yeah, it was fine because I was a kid, but I loved it. I loved my recruiting trip there. I love the ACC. You know, NC State had just won the national championship the year before. Um, and Coach Vivano just fit my my family, my growing up style. And, you know, Coach Vavano's very tough on you and very hard and yelling and you speaking with his hands like I am right now. And and, you know, so when he yelled at you, some guys could take it, but for me, it was a it was like, well, that's how my dad was, and that means he sees something in me that no one else sees. So I'm gonna listen to him. Where other players are like, oh my God, he's yelling at me. What do I do? I'm like, he's yelling at you because he thinks you're talented. You he wants to help you. This is him. Some guys shrunk though in that in that environment. They were like, they couldn't do it, like they couldn't get comfortable sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Um, because he was tough, but he was tough because you know, it was about winning basketball games and preparing and the mindset and the focus that he kind of demanded from all of us. So um that was kind of the environment. He made it fun at times, very fun, but he also made it very difficult. So there was a gap where we knew when we were having fun, but when the whistle blew, it was business time, it was focus time. And um, he was incredibly smart. He would recite poetry to us because he was an English major, but he was an amazing re um motivator, and you learned a lot of life skills there about the adversity of a career, the adversity of life, how to deal with things. Um and he just he just kept pounding it into you in terms of confidence and what was expected.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

So I don't understand all the leagues, but did you ever have to play against Kentucky? I didn't or that coach, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

I didn't no, I don't know. I didn't play against Kentucky in college. I wish I had. Uh, but no, I don't believe I did.

unknown 8:37

No.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Okay.

Student Athlete Discipline And Draft Readiness

SPEAKER_01 8:39

And were you a good student also, or was did you throw everything into sports?

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Uh I you know, I I obviously uh had a great experience at Southfield Academy, which prepared me for college. I graduated in four years. Um I took I went to uh I took heavy loads of summer classes. So my loads during the winter for basketball were a little lighter. Right. So I could graduate in four years. So uh was I uh a dedicated, committed student all the time. No, I was not.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

But could I do enough with the atmosphere and the and the uh support system I had at NC State to make sure I was gonna graduate on time, go to class, make sure the work was done the proper way. Yes, I got it done in four years, but the summer really was beneficial because I was able to work out in the summer, uh, basketball-wise, and great summer leagues there with the the North Carolina Duke NC State players. We we played a lot and competed a lot in the summer. And then I could get the classwork and the summer work done as well. So it was kind of the best of both worlds for me, where I kind of had a plan to make sure that I graduated, which was important, but very important to my parents as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

So you you were self-driven though, pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

I was self-driven because I always I'm of I I like learning. I I'm, you know, I want to learn as much as I can on different topics. And I knew that the smarter I was off the court and learning, being able to listen and focus, it was going to make me a better basketball player on the court. So some of the strengths that I had, obviously I focused on, but you're always trying to figure out how do I become at some of the weaknesses I had to be a better player, be a better person, be a better teammate, whatever it was. And really just kind of that atmosphere at NC State allowed me to do that.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Right. Well, that makes a successful person.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

At that time, you're you're trying to do that, but you're just trying to like, how do I become the best student athlete? How do I become the best player? How do I give myself the best opportunity to be successful long term?

SPEAKER_01 10:38

So, what did you graduate? What was your degree?

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Bachelor of Arts. Yeah, just speech communication. Um, you know, I had a minor in business a little bit. I didn't really finish the minor, but I really was intrigued from the business aspect of things. Um, but yeah, it was just NC State was fantastic for me. Obviously, much different college experience now with the NIL and all the different things and the rules. And but I wouldn't change that for anything. I was I was fortunate enough, not only the basketball part of it, but then uh my junior year, I met my wife Lynn. So, you know, having that experience at NC State, meeting Lynn, you know, uh, you know, we've been married obviously, uh uh coming up in June will be another anniversary. So over 30th. I said over 30. It'll be 35 and June 15th. Yeah. Wow, good for you. So um, yeah, so all of it kind of just came together. And then um I didn't play a lot my first two years at NC State, but I learned and got better and listened to Coach Valvano. Then my junior year I kind of broke through, and then um it just kind of spearheaded from them into the NBA.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

I love it because uh to me, I hear so many things that young people need to hear. Stick with something, you might not be good at it right away, always have a backup plan. I mean, there were things that you did to me that were very successful. I felt that same way of always just trying to better and learn, and you never know where things are gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

I I absolutely, but I also think, you know, it's hard for kids because when you go to a big school, you know, you were your you were the best, you were the all-American, the best player in high school on your team. Right. Now you go to a big school and there's guys that are older than you, juniors and seniors that are more developed, they're recruiting classes that come in. So how do you find your niche? How do you get better? And kids get frustrated. You know what? And and I'm not gonna sit here and go, it wasn't frustrating. Right. It was, but I also knew that eventually I knew I watching, I'm very observant and I knew the talent that I had, it had to be developed and and harnessed, but I also watched other players that were successful. And then as as I became stronger and better and worked at it, um, the frustration kind of went away to building more confidence, like I've got this.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

And then once I kind of had that confidence, then that's when it just kind of spearheaded, and then you become more confident, and then your talent really shows.

Draft Day Kings And Bill Russell Mentor

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Right. So then take me through your draft process, how you got to the Kings.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

My draft process was I went to uh Portsmouth invitational tournaments. So the top college guys would go to this tournament from before the draft.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

How old were you?

SPEAKER_00 13:18

I was 20 years old. I was 20 years old.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

So you were still your second year in college?

SPEAKER_00 13:25

No, I was I was I graduated. I was I graduated my senior year, then I went to the you know, the pre-draft camp in Portsmouth, and then like maybe 21, I guess it would be maybe 2021, and then um played well there. And um, you know, I'm from Springfield, but I grew up a Celtics fan because my father's favorite player was Bill Russell. My father was a very good basketball player, like we talked about. So um I always followed the Celtics, went to Celtics games. So I'll never forget it in Boston. Boston. And then um I was in Portsmouth, and I actually sat and talked for a while with Rhett Arabak at the time, who was the famous coach and president and executive of the Boston Celtics. And I actually thought there was a good possibility I might be drafted by the Celtics, which would be kind of unbelievable. Um, well, that didn't happen, but the next pick in the draft, the the 29th pick, was the Sacramento Kings, and the general manager of the Sacramento Kings was Bill Russell.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Wow, you've been surrounded by these great people.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

So my first NBA call was I'll never forget it, was in our family room or our house in Springfield. The phone rang and I picked it up, and it was Bill Russell saying basically, welcome to the Sacramento Kings. And um, I basically was like, Dad, it's Bill Russell. So my dad spoke to him and whatever. And Bill Russell um could not have been um a better person for me. Uh one to be around, to call a friend. When I went to Sacramento, you're you know, you got you just drafted, you're young, you're trying to figure it out. Um, he was always in my corner, he'd sit and talk to me about things. Um, we'd played golf periodically afterwards in in Arizona when I was way retired and he was, and he was just a fantastic person to me as a young player, trying to just find their way in the league at the time. Um, so yeah, you just those experiences you kind of cherish the memories, um, and there's a lot of them.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

So did you start playing right away or were you sitting on the bench?

SPEAKER_00 15:32

No, I played right away. I mean, I wasn't a starter my first year, I was a starter kind of my second year in the league. Um and then I uh and then they offered me a a three-year extension on my contract.

Italy Move Then Return To NBA

SPEAKER_00 15:45

But to reverse a little bit, when I was coming out of NC State, because I was Italian, um, a gentleman named Beppe De Stefano, who was a general manager in Torino, um had come over to watch me play in the summer in these hot gyms in North Carolina, and he wanted me to come and play in Torino and not go to the NBA draft. And I took a trip to Torino and I enjoyed it. And but my dream was always obviously to play in the NBA. Right. So I got drafted in the NBA. Well, fast forward two years, and I'm in Sacramento, and they offer me a three-year extension. Well, in the meantime, Bepe DeStefano moves from Torino as the general manager to Benetton Treviso, where the Benetton family owns the team. Okay, and he's the general manager. Well, Bepe then comes to me and basically says, You've played in the NBA for two years, and I'm with Benetton now, and we like to offer you a contract. So you've got the extension, so I got the three-year extension. So Benetton gave me a three-year deal, and the Sacramento situation wasn't perfect from an ownership. I love the fans, I love, you know, kind of where we at, but there was some um, there wasn't a clear path there, and I knew there was a lot more for me to improve on. So basically, um, as they say in in in Italian, they made me an offer I couldn't refuse. And uh I ended up going to Italy um and uh played there for for two seasons and uh we won the championship and I was MVP and and then um San Antonio offered me a six-year contract to come back.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Pretty interesting. You just more or less trusted the process and knew that you were gonna be fine no matter what you did.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

But you have to remember, like um, you know, back then um Larry Bird and Magic Johnson were making a million dollars a year.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Which was a lot.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

And I think Moses Malone might have just got two million, he was MVP or something, can't remember who it was. Uh Dr. J was making $750,000. The average salary was $500,000 in the league back then.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Okay, so now the average salary is like $10.6 million.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Like it's a much different, but our whole salary cap in 88, I think, for the Kings was like $11 or $12 million for the whole team. Much different economics now. So back then, um the financial capacity was much different, unless you were a superstar player in the league and things of that nature. And still back then, not that a million dollars isn't a lot of money. Of course it is back then, it was a lot. But you're talking about Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, the greatest players, some of the greatest players of all time. So I felt it as an opportunity where I could go improve, I could really kind of control my career, go play there for a year or two, see how it goes. I could always stay in Italy because after two years in Italy, um, you you can get your citizenship. And Italian teams at that time, they can only have two foreign players. So if I became an Italian, they would have me, plus they could get two foreign players. Right. So we'd have three. So we could pretty much control basketball pretty steadily in Europe. And that's what the Mr. Benetton wanted. So fast forward my second year, we recruit Tony Kukoch, who played for the Chicago Bulls afterwards and was a great player in Europe. And Tony and I played together, we win the championship. I end up going on San Antonio, he stays another year, and then he goes to Chicago. So it was just a different era. A lot of current and former NBA players um were playing in Europe at that time and especially in Italy. It was the top league. Um, so just the environment and the evolution of all that has dramatically changed.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

And who helped you make that decision back? I mean, did Lynn have a lot to do with that?

SPEAKER_00 19:34

You know, well, um, yeah, I mean, it was hard because I was playing in Sacramento, and then I was thinking I'm gonna sign the three-year extension. Lynn and I get engaged, and about two weeks later, uh, she's gonna finish up her college stuff, and I'm gonna go to Europe to play. So she would come back and forth because we were engaged. Then the second year she moved full time to Italy after she graduated. And so it was kind of just a transition period for us and for me and for her and for everything involved. And we were young, you know, we're 23, 24, um, you know, doing what I I love to do, making some money at a young age. Did you kind of traveling?

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Did you make more in Italy? Was the salary was higher there?

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Yeah, yeah, much higher. Uh-huh. Yeah, at that time. For me anyway, because um there was just a lot of houses and cars and agent fees and just uh you know, tax benefits, and just the salaries were bigger at the time if you were a star player in in uh Italy. So um, and then I really had a chance to come back to the NBA for a couple teams, and I chose San Antonio.

unknown 20:42

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Um, and then I had an amazing run there for six years.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Yeah, so you're in Italy and you started getting phone calls with you know, scouts were just at the games watching us play.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Uh uh. You know, phone calls to my agent. Scouts were at the games watching us play in tournaments and games, and and then offers came in, and then I uh negotiated with my agent and I negotiated with San Antonio.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

How'd you get your agent?

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Through Coach Favano.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Yeah, early on.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

And did you skeep with the same agent for for a while.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

I kept them for a while and then kind of converted to some other things after some things transpired. And um Yeah, we just you know, you adjust throughout your career and some things, you know, you should have gone right when you went left, and you went left when you should have went right, and you make some good decisions, some bad decisions, and you know, it all works out in the end. Everyone has their own journey and their own path and you figure out as you go.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Yeah. But it what's what's great with you is you didn't get bitter. You used that as a learning tool.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Learning to curve, you know, more motivation probably, kind of determination, like you know, you get to a s you know, and then you get to San Antonio, and then you're kind of back in trying to get back in the league and trying to figure out all of that. And then that took me a little bit. And then once I kind of figured that out, and then my career took off in San Antonio, and did you read your own press? Nah, not really. Really. I mean, I I really wasn't into that stuff so much. I I was more more interested in how do I become better to make the team better.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

And I was really fortunate to have that experience, having a great prep school coach on Dennis Kinney, and then being, you know, tutored by Coach Vavano, which was tough the first couple of years, and then it kind of flipped and became great. And then obviously the experience in in Sacramento had its own up and downs. And then the experience in Italy was phenomenal in a lot of ways.

Spurs Culture How Standards Are Built

SPEAKER_00 22:30

And it was tough to leave there. But getting to San Antonio, when you have a superstar player like David Robinson, the expectations are very high. But the environment there at that time was different. But as we grew as a unit, myself and Avery Johnson and Sean Elliott and David and the core guys, and when we started having some success, um we kind of created the standard in San Antonio, I feel. And then we continue to improve, continue to get better individually and as a team. And it became what what happens is you want to improve so much because you don't want to let your buddies down. And if I went and had a good game and we lost, I was aggravated. And if I had a bad game and we won, I was fine with it. But I was still aggravated because I had a bad game and I knew I could play better. And I didn't want to let my teammates down, my buddies.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

So you get that mentality of, you know, you have a responsibility to do your job, to perform your job, to prepare the right way. And when people would come in and watch the preparation, I think it takes on a life of its own. So if players aren't used to that and they see kind of how you go to your job every day and how you prepare and what's expected, you can pretty much weed out the guys that are gonna kind of dive into it and the guys that pretty much are like gonna be like, no, I think we can do this. And those guys didn't last. And I think over time, that that has really helped not only San Antonio, but has helped a lot of pro teams kind of create that standard. Everyone talks about culture, but culture happens when you have the right people with the right personalities that take it very um, very serious and they have great leadership and above, great ownership. Um, but the players create that, and you do that by winning. And you have to win. And once you win and you create that standard, the culture is the culture because of that standard.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

So you transitioned at some point, yeah, right, from a teammate to, and you must have. I watched my sons, I have three sons, and watched how they knew and strategized with the game. And then you're playing as a player and you're having to talk to or get opinions from a coach that you might not agree with, right? So, how did that look for you? Because you did transition into coaching.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

You know, I've always kind of uh felt like I wanted to, I was like a student of the game. I knew, you know, how do I study angles and drills and things that could really help me? Um, and the best coaches are coaches that, you know, really kind of emphasize your strengths on the court and try to minimize your weaknesses. Um, you know, not everybody is Michael Jordan and Magic and Larry and all the phenomenal players that there are now. So, you know, how do we, you know, how do I become an asset consistently for the team? What do I do great that they need? How do I fit a piece of the puzzle?

SPEAKER_02 25:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

And I think the players that can figure that out have long careers and successful careers. Um, and a lot goes into that. So the the student of the game, watching film, being the first guy to practice, the last guy to leave, understanding the leadership values of you know, how do we motivate each other and how can we yell at each other but still put our arm around each other or argue on something and figure out a resolution to it so the group becomes stronger.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

And that's kind of you know the the evolution, how you study the game, and that's how it kind of transpired when I retired from radio and TV and all the other things. There was always a niche to kind of, you know, coach. And I had opportunities early on to go on some benches of some coaches, and I wasn't ready to do that. So I kind of dug into the media and the front office and other aspects of it to learn and figure out kind of what my next kind of niche was going to

Sponsor And Retirement Pivot To Media

SPEAKER_00 26:32

be.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

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SPEAKER_03 27:13

No.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

You just at some point retired because it was I retired because I had three elbow surgeries and my right elbow and my shooting hand, I really injured it bad. And I knew I was gonna need a major surgery and I was gonna be out six months, and I had had a few surgeries the summers before, and it was my 14th year, and I was slowing down a ton the last few seasons. I knew that as much as I prepared. Um, and then I just I had you know had great relationships uh in the media over my career with with ESPN and things. So that kind of just kind of when I retired, ESPN asked me, would you come in and do some TV shows? So I went to Bristol and I went to do MBA tonight and shows in the NBA store and worked with some amazing people and learned a lot.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

And kind of just threw myself in there and tried to just figure it out and had some good guidance with some great people. And and that turned into um Coach Popovich in San Antonio saying, Will you do some TV for the Spurs? And then that turned into Jerry Clanjuel saying, Well, you do some TV for the Suns, because I was living in Phoenix, and I did that for a couple of years, and then the Suns asked me to do some radio home games, and then the next year they asked me we do radio home games, but also do some road games and scout first on the road. Wow, okay, and and go see some some players. So on the road, I would go see all the top college players and I would fill out these forms that they gave me. Right. And I had a I had an advantage because I had just retired. So when I went to in the gyms, I knew some of the coaches, I knew some of the players, I knew or they knew me from watching me play for years, I knew assistant coaches. So when you're scouting, the most important thing is gathering information.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Right. Did they know you were taking notes on them?

SPEAKER_00 29:06

Oh, yeah. They were they knew I was a scouting thing. So you know, you take the notes and you know, nice to meet you. And then basically after that, the sons came to me and basically said, you know, we want you to be director of player personnel. And so things were hitting. And then I said, I'll do that for a year. And um I said, I'll do it for a year, but after a year, you have to make me assistant general manager. So after a year of doing that, that's when um the uh the team was sold and the new owner came in and I met with them and I said I'll stay on, but make me assistant general manager. And I did that for I think I'm guessing a little bit now, uh aging myself, probably four or five years. Right. And then I knew at some time I wanted to coach. So I just How did you know? I just knew I wanted to be around the game. I I love the competition. You know, your brain starts working. Kind of the TV and radio stuff was fun because I learned, the front office stuff was fun because I learned.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

And um But would you be saying, ah, if I was coach, I would have done this different or I would have taken this player out?

SPEAKER_00 30:11

I think you say that, but then once you coach, you realize it doesn't work like that. Uh and as a and because I was able to play a long time with some phenomenal coaches, um, I I knew it doesn't always work how people think it's gonna work until you're kind of you you dive into it. Um so it it just uh the real story is is that I was in the Phoenix front office and I thought, well, you know, maybe I'll become, you know, general manager or stay in the front office for whether it's Phoenix or another team or whatever.

From Front Office To Head Coach

SPEAKER_00 30:39

And um, and at that time they came to me and said, you know, would you like to interview for the head coaching job for the Suns? Because I had been in meetings and talking basketball and things, and I said, Yeah, but um, I need a month uh to not work and I need to prepare the right way. I'm a big preparation guy.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

So, how did you know how to prepare for a head coach?

SPEAKER_00 31:00

So, what I did over the years, the true story is what I did over the years, in my house, I have a huge file cabinet. And uh for 14 years, all the scouting reports, all the summer programs, all the offensive and defensive philosophies, all the rules, anything you can think of, I kept all the books. Ah. So I had them in a cabinet. So what I did for a month is I read each book and went through them and I took my own notes of what triggered me. How would I want to be kind of how would I coach? How would I prepare? What are my offensive and defensive philosophies really? Not just kind of guessing, but like really write them down and think through it. Right. What would the summer programs be for players? What would I have specific standards and things that would be demanded of the players? And I put five books together in a month with a lot of help from a lot of people that I trusted, that I kind of mentored and kind of respected. And I went back and I interviewed for the Phoenix job.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

And did you have to show them those books?

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Or I brought them all.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

You did?

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Yep, I brought them all. This is this is what I believe in and presented. And um, they love they love them.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Did they read them or did they just say forget about it?

SPEAKER_00 32:16

No, they they they did you know every interview is different, right? You know, um, every interview that I've done is different. Um, but this one was kind of like, okay, tell me your story. And this was kind of my beginning of kind of figuring out my story and kind of how I would want to coach and how I would want to be. And what ended up happening is Phoenix at the time had a very, very um experienced Western Conference finals, trying to get over the hump to the finals, win a championship roster with some great fantastic players and Steve Nash and Grand Hill and just fantastic. And what years this? Um, this was like 20 uh 10. No, this was 2008. Well, 2008. Okay. And um so they hired someone else, which I was fine with because I wasn't, I wasn't, you know, I was still figuring things out. So, well, because I was involved as assistant GM, I was involved in the draft very heavily, and they have the pre-draft camp in Florida. Um, so I went down to the pre-draft camp and the whole NBA world is there trying to figure out who you're gonna draft, interviews, talking to players, scouts, agents, everything, and figuring it all out. Well, um uh people in the front office in Phoenix knew some people in the front office in Chicago. I had some relationships with some people in Chicago in the front office, and they were interviewing, they were looking for a head coach, and they uh interviewed a ton of candidates at that point, and um they wanted to interview me. Right. So kind of ran into someone that I knew.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

And did you bring all those books?

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Not at the time. Okay. Um, so basically uh the person running the bulls at the time said, you know, why don't we sit down and meet? And I literally said to him, you know, well, you have my number. I was gonna go to Christini's Italian restaurant because I'd been in the gym all day and it's my favorite Italian restaurant. So I was bringing some player scouts and some different people I knew were gonna go. I said, you know, you have literally like this. You have my number. If you're serious, give me a call and we'll talk.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Just like that.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

Well, next morning hard to get not hard to get.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

It was just like basically we have, you know, I knew him and we're like, hey, if you want to talk, I'm more than willing. Obviously, Chicago Bulls is a historic franchise and everything. So um, you know, there's only 30 of the jobs. So the next morning, I literally was getting ready for a meeting and my phone rang, and the gentleman came over and uh uh to the hotel, and uh he said he only had about an hour to talk. And we sat there for three hours and I just went through everything that I believed in and how I would do things and what I expected and the standards and all that. And two weeks later I flew in and had an interview with the Bulls, and I stayed over the next night, and the next day they offered me the job.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

So was your agent involved in any of these like I didn't have an agent. Oh, you didn't? Wow.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

I was my agent.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

Wow, head coach, agent. You're you wear a lot of hats.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

I well, I I had known kind of contracts and business from being in the front office and everything, and I kind of and this happened so fast.

unknown 35:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

You know, it was like interview for the Bulls two weeks later, uh excuse me, interview for the Suns, two weeks later, interview for the Bulls, and like a week later, Lynn and me and my family are all flying into Chicago having a press conference.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Wow, and it was just like, and I literally uh And you knew your value right?

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Yeah, and I had some help from some some agents and things that it relationships I had, but I'll I mean I walked out of CVS pharmacy and I sat in my truck and I got a call from the Bulls, um basically from the owner, and I sat in the CVS park a lot in my truck and we negotiated my contract.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

And two weeks later I was doing the press conference. Yeah. That's kind of the the cliff notes of everything.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

Right.

Coaching Rose Bulls Then Clippers Lessons

SPEAKER_00 36:20

So then you inherited what kind of team did you I didn't inherit well, you know uh the the team had kind of you know done some good things but kind of had struggled. But you know, most coaches have a shelf life, and um uh uh they had a tremendous coach before me, I thought. And uh but there was I want to change, and that's part of the business, and you know that going into it. Um and the and the great thing is is that um the ping pong balls in the draft bounced the right way, and the Bulls ended up getting the number one pick in the draft, and that year that number one pick was was uh we selected Derek Rose, who I coached uh for two years, and he was rookie of the year the first year and was just a superstar player and from Chicago and just an amazing talent, an amazing athlete.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

Um did you coach him similar to the way Jimmy Vavano did you?

SPEAKER_00 37:14

No, I you know, no, not not from a college standpoint, more from, you know, learning the personalities of what kind of kind of try to make the players as comfortable. You know, some players you can give a lot of information to and they'd like that. And some people, some players just want one or two things and and it frees them up a little bit. I think if you clutter the mind, the feet get slow and it's a reaction sport. Uh so I I don't want people worrying about the process, I want them to react.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

So everyone was different. Derek was more of a react type of player, like just let him go. Just like coach him every day, let him learn things, but just kind of let him go because he was just such a phenomenal athlete. And um he was only going to improve his shooting and his understanding of time and score and all the things, but he was so far advanced, you know, how he thought, his athleticism. So when you have a player like that, now you know you can build around that. Um, and the other players that were there, we had some veteran players and and Kirk Heinrich and Lu Al Dang and Joe Kim Noah at the time, who I love, was trying to figure out his path in the NBA. We kind of worked through that.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Do guys have jealousy, like girls?

SPEAKER_00 38:29

I mean, no, I don't think there's jealousy. I just think, you know, I'm sure there is, but it it really players know um their position. Their position and who should be playing. And is it always perfect? Is it always the perfect role for the player? No. But if it's the perfect role for the team, the team is the most important thing.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Well, as a coach, you had to instill that in some probably.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

Yeah, and you do that by practicing the right way, by creating that that environment of how we're gonna play, you know, what the standards are defensively, you know, uh what what's not gonna be tolerated. Um, you know, I had different things, you know, always playing hard, being a great teammate, um, be playing unselfish. Just things that sound funny probably, but very important in the structure of the team to make sure you're you're pushing and pulling and creating that uh area where they feel most comfortable to give them the best chance to win and have my goal in coaching was always how do I make an individual player better so they can have a great career so the team can be successful?

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Right. And aren't those sometimes the superstar, aren't they?

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Yeah, it can be difficult, there's no question. And it really, if you have kind of coachable superstars, which I was very lucky in my five years being a head coach to have, um it makes it so much easier because everyone kind of falls in line and uh and makes it much easier. Is it difficult at times? Of course, but that's part of life, part of coaching, but that's also what makes it great. Um, the ups and downs, the adversity of the season, how do you handle that? Never getting too up, never getting too down, um, managing injuries, um, managing the schedule, managing your practice schedule, the travel schedule, everything that goes into all that is very important.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

Dress level to me as a head coach, did you chew a lot of gum?

SPEAKER_00 40:24

No, a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. But yeah, but yeah, no, there's there is. Um, it's a different, differ, totally different lifestyle that you would expect. Um, but it's great. There's basketball has given me so many great opportunities and and fortune in so many ways. So it was a way for me to kind of give back to players and try to help them. Did I always do a perfect job? Absolutely not. Um, am I proud of a lot of things that me and my coaching staff did? I had great assistant coaches.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Um did you get to hire the assistants or uh sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Uh a little bit, yeah. Um, I got the Chicago Bulls job late. Um, and I was hired to hire most of my assistants. Um, and I think it's paramount that you do. Um, and then in LA, I got the job late as well, right before summer league. So I had an idea of what my staff was going to look like, and I was able to hire the staff in LA.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

How did you transition from Chicago to LA?

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Well, after uh, you know, uh I left Chicago.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

Why did you leave?

SPEAKER_00 41:28

It was just, it was, it was just not working out there. We had made the playoffs twice, but there was friction with with people in the organization. Um, and it was it was just it was the right, it was disappointing always, but it was it was best for them and best for me, I think. Um It was disappointing, hurtful to leave the players and kind of the atmosphere and that what we had done, but that's part of it, and I knew that going in. And then two or three weeks later, I think the Clipper had called and said, We want to talk to you, so I flew to LA and um I met with them, and that was very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

And what was interesting about it?

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Well, it was just it was just I had another year on my Chicago Bulls contract, and um I knew I wanted to coach again, but it had to be a a uh a healthier environment for me than it was in Chicago. Um and I was fortunate, you know, I I was able to find that, although at the time the LA Clippers weren't kind of viewed in that way.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

So uh it was a young team.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

It was very young, they hadn't had it really much success overall in many years, hardly any. Right. Um, and um you know, an owner that was uh not the most uh you know had had had not had great success as being the owner for a lot of years. So when I met with them, it was pretty much this is what we're gonna do. And if you're willing to let me do that, then I'm your guy. And if you're not, then I'm not your guy.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

And um they were like, tell me more, and I sat and kind of told them what we're gonna do. And I was fortunate because Blake Griffin had been the number one pick the year before, but had an injury. Um, so that season they didn't really have much success, especially because they were gonna build around him. And I envisioned that as well, we were building around Derek in Chicago. Now I have another fantastic superstar player I felt I could build around in LA and bring kind of the same method to the madness, I guess, to LA.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

Um, but it it it has to fit, you know.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Um but you were good at understanding that.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

I knew that I'd learned enough to that point that it was only gonna work if I could make those decisions in terms of how I wanted the team to look and play and and things of that nature. Um and Luckily the owner was was uh you know said I just told him I said I will every time I come to you for something or tell you something, I'm gonna give you three reasons why we have to do it. And after I give you the three reasons, all you have to do is say yes. And he was, you know, kind of and I could tell you a lot of stories about my my my uh my kind of my story in LA. But basically, you know, we turned that organization into one that was having success, won the you know, won the most games in franchise history in my second year and or third year, and um we traded for some great players and we built a roster up and players wanted to come to LA now. Um and they let me kind of build it that way. In the last year, you know, I was the general manager, I signed uh players, I traded for players, I did everything because I had known how to do that from Phoenix when I was in the front office. And um and it just kind of built that atmosphere. Um and then we made the playoffs my my second year, my third year. Third year we won 56 games and won the Pacific Division, which he had never done in in the franchise history. Um, but we got beat in the playoffs, and they felt that you know they wanted to move in a different direction with some players and some things they wanted to do, and um that's part of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

So um you were you were in a business with rejection just like I was. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

That's part of it. Yeah, you know, so is it hurtful? Is it disappointing? Yeah, but I didn't, you know, and I loved coaching. I love part of coaching. Um, was I gonna stay in coaching? Um, was I gonna be a lifer coach? I didn't see myself doing that. Why not? How you just needed I know just the lifestyle and the stress and being away from my family, Malin and my family and every the commitment you have to make. And if you're not, you know, and I was completely 1000% fully invested, you know, but I felt like one of my strengths was relationships and building. Um, so if I had stayed in LA, um, I probably would have coached another three, four, five years, and then I would have probably transitioned to make sure in the front office to make sure that situation would have been successful for a long time. But that wasn't their vision.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

Um, and my vision wasn't far enough along at that point to get there. So um, you know, things happen for various reasons. Are they always fair? No, they're not.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

But don't dwell on it.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

Don't dwell on it, move forward, you know, thank everybody, wish everybody great luck. Um, but you know, uh, you know, you forgive, but you don't forget.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

And that's kind of been, you know, how I grew up. And um, and you move on. And there's no way that I could ever complain about anything as great as basketball has been to me, and the relationships and the memories from playing to front office to radio TV to coaching to all aspects. Um, I've been very blessed. So could it have gone a lot worse? Of course, could have gone a lot better, possibly.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

But that's my journey.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

Right.

Life After Coaching Giving Back Goodbye

SPEAKER_01 47:14

So after coaching, then what? What are you doing? It's now, right?

SPEAKER_00 47:19

Yeah, then I just yeah, then I well, it's been several years, but then I kind of just kind of fell back into the TV thing with uh TNT with MBA TV.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

Did you pursue it or did they call you again? You're sitting around and someone calls you.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

I actually don't remember. Um, but it was just, yeah, it was just after I'd coached, it was just like, okay, want to stay in basketball in some aspect, had opportunities to go back into some front offices that people had called and reached out to me, but I didn't want to move again. We loved living in Phoenix. I had, you know, moved playing, moved coaching. So it was time to kind of get a base for us. And we loved Phoenix. Um, so I just kind of fell into a little bit of the TV stuff and a little bit of the NBA series XM uh radio stuff for a while. But it wasn't uh after you played and coached and you've been in the fire, um, media and TV was fun because I loved the people I was working with. Um, but I knew uh that wasn't kind of my passion, what I wanted to do. So uh once COVID hit, um, it became a little more difficult with the travel back to Atlanta and things of that nature. So I did some radio stuff with with Sirius XM Radio. And then that kind of they wanted a uh uh more of my time and a schedule, and I wasn't really ready to do that either. So um I just kind of transitioned out of that, and then I just started kind of um uh doing things for the V Foundation for Cancer Research. I started uh being a trustee for the Basketball Hall of Fame where I grew up 10 minutes away from the Basketball of Fame. So Jerry Calangel asked me to do that, and now it's moved into I'm on the ambassador's council for the Hall of Fame. So we do different events. Um, and then I got into some real estate and business things with partners and family, and all those things keep me very busy. And um the Hall of Fame ste stuff keeps me in the basketball world with events, and we'll have one here for the women's final four, which will be exciting at the enshrinement dinner. So yeah, it's just kind of constant and um constant change for you and constant good things, yeah. You know, uh things I enjoy doing um and projects I enjoy working on.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

Right. Well, wonderful. It's absolutely amazing. Your story, I love, and I just love the way you approach life and preparing and learning and ready to make changes. So it's uh pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

Well, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I always appreciate it, and great to see you.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

Yeah, you too. Thank you. Thanks for watching the show. If you have any questions for me or you want any more information, go to kimalexis.com.