TRUST WHAT YOU ALREADY KNOW: AN NFL LEGEND ON OVERTHINKING

Welcome And Meet Nick Lowery

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I am Him Alexis. Spring clear. Mr. Kimmel is showing his collection of spring covers. I unkimblexis with your tickets to adventure.

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So I'm sitting here with NFL Place Kicker, and you were an all-time leading scorer, seven-time all-pro, and three-time all pro bowler. I mean, that's great. Nick Lowry.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

So Nick and Pro Bowlers, not with uh bowling ball. Bowling ball. It's the the Pro Bowl. Yeah. Discrepancy between the seven times different teams with All Pro, but in the end, uh very grateful to make it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Yeah. Yeah. Gets us all whatever we do in our past is what gets us here. And that's for me, that's the fascinating part. And I think that's what people want to hear. The audience wants to hear. So I'm always fascinated about where people start and what molds them into who they

Growing Up Between Cultures

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are. So you were born in Germany.

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I was born in Germany. We're going to talk about my book later, I understand, but um all these things I look at as the things that helped me grow as a person. Growing up in Europe as a baby, I didn't really know much and went back to the States when I was one. My dad was in the first full class of Fulbright scholars in uh right after World War II. And he was an expert on Western and Eastern Germany and Russia. Excuse me. Russia and um Eastern Europe. And uh just having a mother who was in the first world class of women at Oxford and grew up in Cairo, Egypt. Wow. All of those things are really, I think, powerful sets of different um perceptions and and priorities, being able to adapt to different um cultures, people, moving every few years.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Right, right. And you didn't really did you have brothers and sisters or was it just you? Two sets of twins.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Really? My mother was part of the rationing.

SPEAKER_03 2:28

And you were the one that was not a twin.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

She joked that rationing. She learned to ration and use, you know, if efficient use of resources. So my brothers were born in 51. I was born in 56 with my twin sister Annie.

SPEAKER_03 2:43

Oh, so you have a twin. How fun is that?

SPEAKER_00 2:46

It is. It's better when it's a woman, too, when it's a different gender, because I think Well, you don't know.

SPEAKER_03 2:53

How do we know?

SPEAKER_00 2:54

No, you don't. Right? But as I look back, there's less comparison, you know, less of that competitive stuff.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

So your two brothers are very competitive with each other?

SPEAKER_00 3:03

I just think it was more comfortable for us. Oh. You know, and people thought at first that they were identical and they were very different personalities.

SPEAKER_03 3:13

Right. But they looked alike at first.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

And then Chris grew to six foot five, very thin. Mark was thin, but not as thin. He was six foot two. Mark was a tennis player, he played in college. Chris was not really a great athlete, but he was brilliant. They both were very smart. Chris was ridiculously smart. Um, probably was on the early side of the spectrum.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

That never diagnosed, but back then they didn't diagnose as much, I think, right? Yeah. Yeah. So

Privilege Responsibility And Role Models

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talk about going to college. So first you went to Dartmouth, right?

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Yeah, I went to one of the best high schools, St. Albans School in Washington, with Bushes and before that Potomac with some Kennedys. So if you're interested in those influences, when you're around people like that, right? Um, and your principals and headmasters are always saying, to whom much is given.

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Given much is required. That's my I love that.

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Yeah.

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That's why we're here, because I was given a lot and I want to give back. Yeah.

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And and I like to say, you know what, I was privileged. I was my parents weren't wealthy at all, but you know, they did fine. But my next door neighbor was a Supreme Court justice, best friends of Bobby Kennedy and John F. Kennedy, Justice Byron Wizard White, who finished number one at Yale Law School the same year he led the NFL in rushing. That's a different kind of role model.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

He uh was number two under Bobby Kennedy at the Department of Justice before that, and commandeered with the Marshals, who was in charge of the U.S. Marshals, the school buses that protected the marchers into Selma, Alabama during the civil rights marches.

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Wow.

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So a different kind of role model. And, you know, in that environment, very much so. John F. Kennedy's words asked not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. It's absolutely in every cell in my body from all the great people I was lucky enough to know.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

So then how did you get into athletics when you were around politicians and so many smart people? And you're smart, we'll get into that later.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

But uh appearances deceive.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

No, no, no. But you so in high school were you playing sports too?

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Oh, I was playing lots of sports, five different sports. I was my brother was a tennis teaching pro. So I was a I played tennis, I was MVP of the baseball team, kicked the game-winning field goal in my last game at St. Albans in the mud in the rain, which is kind of a legendary kick now. And I think that was a bit of a sign, you know, it was a 43-yarder in the mud and rain against in the last two seconds of our game against our arc rival Landon.

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Right.

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And um you like that feeling? Like, oh, I can do this. Oh, I love that feeling. I didn't let my teammates down. You know, you wonder, am I gonna have what it takes in those moments? Right.

SPEAKER_03 6:16

Well, especially as a kicker. And you actually years later, you had very many eight of them game-winning goal kicks?

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Fifty.

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Fifty?

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Fifteen. Oh, okay. Actually, 15 officially, but if you count kicks in the fourth quarter, right, 40.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

But they don't count this.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

Yeah. But it talks about something in this the mental strength. What we're gonna get there. So you're in college and you're studying at this point, right? Probably because of all these people you're around, but now you're still playing athletics. Did you play?

SPEAKER_00 6:49

We played baseball and football at Dartmouth.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

I I quit uh, and I like absolutely to

Sports Identity And The Big Kick

SPEAKER_00 6:55

discourage the idea of quitting, but in the end, it just wasn't fun playing baseball anymore. And I took ballet that next summer. Really? And had the first season ever of a kicker not missing a single field goal or extra point. So it was a good move. The ballet helped. Ballet absolutely helped. Wow. Gave me a kinesthetic touch and balance and awareness and flexibility. Right.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

So yeah, I would think flexibility is super important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Yeah. So, but then what happened with the draft?

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Oh, what happened was my my senior year was a mediocre year by my standards. I was all New England, um, all Ivy League, but I just wasn't that great. Um, I kicked six three 65-yard field goals uh in a tryout with the uh an audition with the Pittsburgh Steelers scout, and yet they didn't draft me. So in the end, it was what it was, and I had to, I had two teams call me at the very end of the draft. One coach um came all the way up from the University of Massachusetts. He'd been the head coach there and was now with the the uh Cleveland Browns. But I just thought New the New York Jets sounded a little bit more appetizing. So I signed with them and uh and then got cut. I wasn't quite ready for primetime, missed two field goals in my my very important game against San Diego, and thought it was gonna be the end of the world. And that was, I think, a really important insight is you know, a lot of people are afraid to confront the fears that their dream will die if they confront their dream and really embrace it and try to see if it can happen. Right. And after a couple days, I realized it wasn't the end of the world. I just had to keep going. And a month later, I uh showed up on the doorstep at Foxborough Stadium, Schaefer Stadium, it was called then, with the New England Patriots, drove down from Dartmouth where I'd been working as a waiter at the Bullseye restaurant and uh nailed 17 field goals in a row, and they signed me four days later and uh played two games. One, my very first game was at national TV in Oakland, Oakland, excuse me, excuse me, against uh the Oakland Raiders. And I could just tell I was not quite there yet, but I knew getting used to it being put out there. Right. Uh a guy named Howard Cosell was saying as as we drove for the game-winning field goal, there goes the tall angular one from Dartmouth Gallage, Dome Lowry. It's really Nick, but Dominic's my full name. So call me Dome Lowry, the tall angular one. Never tried a field goal before. Here it is. Game-winning opportunity. Can he handle the pressure? And I remember the cameras were on me, and and and there was one right next to me or 10 feet away, and a red light come back then came on when it was on you. Right. And I was trying to act like I was confident, et cetera. And inside I was you were playing for the camera instead of preparing for going for this. Well, yeah, I was just trying to look confident as I was getting rid of the city.

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Confident.

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Just not going, so played one more game against the San Diego Chargers. And just wasn't ready. Really badly missed a 45-yard field goal.

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And uh so it's not your physical that wasn't ready.

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It was a pick. It was both, though. It was both. I had to get used to back then you could kick off a T in a game in college. Now you isn't it that little plastic thingy? Mm-hmm. A little flat T back then. And then you so you had to learn like a golfer, you can't, it's imagine hitting a drive without a T. Ooh. Takes a while to get used to that. Takes

Draft Disappointment And Getting Cut

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a while. I don't know if I could ever do that. And you have to get the ball over these huge people that are 22 feet away, that are paid lots of money to teach you alive. Right. And so that takes a while. And so they were checked, they said, sorry. And the same thing happened about two days later. I'm like, God, I just gotta keep going. And I tried out for eight different teams over two years. And I look at wait, how old are you? 22, 23. Okay. Between the first offseason and the next season, I work with Senator John Chaffee of Rhode Island. So I was a drama major at Dartmouth for two years, and then I switched to to government and was an intern in the world. There's some skill sets that that transcend both places. And um I think I could just I think you just pay your dues. And once you've paid your dues, you you overcome imposter syndrome. Right. Imposter syndrome can be uh the antidote to imposter syndrome is work your butt off so diligently, put yourself through hell just enough times where you're like, okay, I've had enough. And I just knew I was ready and uh actually had taken the job. I'd given up uh the uh Jets cut me for the second time in two years, even though I won the tryout. It was really ridiculous. I outkicked the other three kickers, and I just thought And you can't get resentful, you kind of have to. It's just frustrating, it's just frustrating, and you're like, God, it's ever gonna end. So I I got a job working for Senator Bob Packwood on the um commerce committee working on aviation deregulation. And I got a call a week later, just as I was beginning to work for them. The only non-attorney.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

And uh Jim Schaft said, I'm sorry, Nick. I'm the general manager for the Chiefs, and I would have called a week earlier, but I had back surgery. But uh our coach, Marv Levy, loves kickers and loves the kicking game. We think you could be part of the solution. And I said, Thanks, but uh, I've got a great job here in the Senate, and I hung up. Wow, that's that could have gone either way, right? That would that would have been the end. Yeah. Uh my friend Sharon Lecter talks about it, you know, in a book called Three Feet from Gold, that so many people give up when they're right there, and that was after 11 rejections. And but something, I think if you have a mentor, that's the perfect role of the mentor to help you steer back to what are the core values and the priorities that matter to you. And uh I called up Dick Johnson, who'd been coaching me for five years, and just said, What's why is this bothering me? He said, Well, you'll always wonder if you don't find out what they had to offer. Yes, and um I had to find this guy, I didn't know how to spell his name, there was no internet, and I traced him back to his hospital room. No, and blew him away, blew me away, too, frankly. And uh we talked and they flew me in to a snowy Kansas City, and um they offered me $2,500. I'd never been given a bonus before, and that's not much, it's nothing today. But it was a sign, and they said they'd bring me in in May 1st rather than the end of July.

Paying Dues Until The Chiefs Call

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Three more months to get ready. Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

And did you have an agent or were you doing it yourself?

SPEAKER_00 14:13

I was doing it myself. You're negotiating your own? A big thirty thousand dollar salary. Well, I don't know how good of an agent you were. I didn't have any leverage at that point, but a bonus was great. And then I was going against the greatest kicker in the history of the game, Jan Stenerud. Ah, but I that imposter syndrome was gone. I'd paid my dues, I was ready. And I think that's the vote you you're voting for yourself when you don't give up. Right. And I just thought it's my time. But on the other hand, I have to outkick this guy at everything, every single practice. And Jan was kicking well. Right. Um, he just did a video for me for this roast coming up in Kansas City on Sunday, and he sent it to me, and uh he was convinced that he was kicking really well, which he was kicking well. And Clark Hunt, here's the other interesting thing is he's now the owner of the Kansas City Chiefs, the son of Lamar Hunt, and he was a 16-year-old ball boy charting us. Get off time 1.35, 1.26, how far it was.

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So getting off was from when you step down.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

When the ball snapped, no, when the ball snapped, okay, caught by the holder, put down and kicked. Okay. And the kicker only has less than two tenths of a second to see the ball as he's moving towards it before it stops spinning. When to stop spinning and and kick it.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

So you don't kick it when it's spinning?

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Probably shouldn't.

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Bad?

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Not good.

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I girls don't know this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:39

And did you get to pick the guy that did this?

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Nope. So although once the season would start, you'd let them know for sure if somebody was much better. But um, Marv Leavy, the head coach, he would have made that important. Some coaches would say, hey, you gotta have this guy. Um some coaches today don't want a quarterback. They don't they think somehow the quarterback's gonna get injured. No quarterback that I know has ever been injured holding the ball. But but anyway, so I didn't realize quarterbacks held balls.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Really? Yeah. Because their eye hand is better, their eye hand is incredible. Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Yeah. So interesting. But um, they made this very controversial move to cut Jan Stenard, and I had my opportunity, and I didn't watch any TV or read newspapers for a few weeks, which was a very smart thing to do. And then started off with a 50-yarder. My very first attempt was a 50-yarder, and then a 57-yarder, an NFL record, first time, two 50-yard field goals in a game, club record, 57-yarder, third longest in NFL history, and that was a statement, you know, I'm ready against the Seattle Seahawks.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

So, as a kicker, I always wondered this, and again, I'm a girl, but when you're watching a game, are you watching plays develop and you're like, you gotta be kidding me? They're gonna make me kick. Like, it's now I've like we're down to like the wire, and do you get that stress like you can't do that? So you can't think that way.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

No, you just gotta be ready for whatever happens.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

So you're just off on the sideline just practicing in that.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Sure, there's part of you that says it'd be nice if we got a first down here, but but I mean that that doesn't help you. Then suddenly the quarterback gets sacked on third down instead of a 35-yarder, it's a 47-yarder. Right. Then you second yourself up there. No, that doesn't that that that will probably ensure that you don't make it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

Okay, but it's amazing because it's this mental preparedness. And I was just talking about toughness. Yes.

Pressure Proof Routines And The Mental Office

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Well, it's not unlike Roger Clemens, right? He's a pitcher, you know. You just you're on a map, you're on an island as a pitcher. I was a pitcher too in college, and um, you have to manage that. But the way I put it is you have to create your own office, mental office.

SPEAKER_04 17:51

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

And so that office would be eight yards back to where I'm kicking. That that part, no one screws with me in that area. Right. It's including myself. I have to be disciplined and focused. And so I think all of us, no matter what we do, have to create our own mental office, functional office where we don't let anything inside that will distract us from our goals and what our priorities are.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

And some of that is that stepping back and pacing and getting prepared. It's like now you're measuring off your office in a way.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

In a way, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Having your routine. Like for me, I would do this. And I mean, it's funny to say this, but I literally, as it happened, developed these fingers right here, were sort of my antenna with the goalposts. I'm like, ah. And it just these little things, sensory things, because you're looking at the ball, you're not looking at the goalposts anymore. So you have to have a way to orient. Um, but everybody has their own way of doing it. Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:51

Um and that was some of what you figured out when you were younger, right? Hundreds of thousands of kicks. Yeah. Yeah. What works. Yeah. Interesting. I would think one leg's longer than the other, by the way.

unknown 19:02

After all those years.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

See, I'm a girl. Girls ask way different things together.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Chiropractor said maybe one leg was, you know, eventually a little bit, you know, you had to adjust me back.

SPEAKER_03 19:12

Yeah. You know? Well, I would think so. And back in the day, we didn't have as much of the train offside training, right? I didn't even have. I mean, now these guys, these players, don't they have like chiropractors on the sideline and all these different people and the hot, the cold, and the all the different things.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Russell Wilson's father was my teammate in college, Harry Wilson, on the football and baseball team. Russell Wilson, 10 years ago, was spending one million dollars a year on massage, on personal trainers, on cuisine, everything. So, because that would translate to more than that in terms of incentives he'd make. Right. And um so he understood what you put in determines what's lots of players now. LeBron James, you know, that's really kind of helps. And the uh facilities and the equipment now is so much better. Back then they had us doing really raw Olympic lifting, very heavy deadlifts and squats and bench press. And even for you as a kicker, you had to do that? I had no ar I could not argue with them. I had to be a team player. And uh I'll never forget I was deadlifting 400 pounds, 200 and 415 pounds, and I heard a pop about two feet a foot off the floor, and it didn't hurt, it just popped. And after the season, I found out that my L4 had turned like that, which probably wasn't a good thing, but I still played another 14 years.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

L4's down here, right? Yeah, yeah. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Yeah, and squats too. I ended up, I was doing 240 pounds and lunges by the end of my career, and I didn't do as much with the heavy squats, more like slow um repetitions with with body body weight with 210 pounds. You can't compete against some of those big guys, those linesmen. I mean it's gotta be functional. Today they have much more functional equipment that adapts to the sp and

Longevity Leadership And Team Chemistry

SPEAKER_00 21:10

targets specific muscle groups and without the risk of being injured.

SPEAKER_03 21:14

Right. Yeah. Right. So you were 18 years in the NFL with three different teams.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Well, 14 years with Kansas City. I'm their all-time scorer. Right. So that's my team. My last three years were, shall we say, um character building with the Jets. So what what was the biggest character building? Losing uh 28 of 32 games my last two years. And it wasn't your fault. Which Richie Co-Ty. Well, I was part of the team. So I can say it wasn't my fault. Right. But we had Pete Carroll the first year, and we were really going places. We we fell apart in December, and for some reason they let him go, and he went on to be take the Patriots to the playoffs, and then take two championships, national championships. For USC and then two Super Bowls, should have won both, won one of them.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

And uh is probably a Hall of Fame head coach. And they let him go after one season, and they probably should have given him two seasons to have the right people in it. It usually takes that time and to get the right personnel, the leaders, not just physically, but the chemistry of the team.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

Yes. I mean, that is so important. How that all the different everything has to work together. And you'll see someone do they'll win some series in any sport, right? And then they're changing players out of the team. You're like, what are you doing? That's a winning team right there. Why are you messing with it?

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Yep. It's a difficult job being a general manager, and we'll see this week tomorrow with the draft. It's very hard to judge not only talent, but the character. Who's going to be the person that's not a sabotaging influence off the field? Who's going to be the person that shows up and plays hard when they're injured? You know, who's going to be somebody that fits into the offense and what we need. And and when they're asking him to do things he doesn't want to do, he'll do them anyway because he wants to be a true team player. Right. It's really, you can hear, as we all know, what somebody says and what they do. Are not always the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

Right. So as a teammate, you had some of those sabotagey type players where they would I think every team has one or two players that can take the team off its mark.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

And whose job is it the coach's job to it's the coach and the general manager. They've got to figure out who is really the better fit, the chemistry. It's not just talent. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

Right. It's it's amazing. And I mean, I know so little about it, but it must be interesting having to live through it and deal with it and watch as it's happening.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

And you know, I think you focus on what you got to do. Make sure you do your job. Marty Schottner became in our head coach in 1989, and within two weeks, we were a tougher team with no change in personnel. And he began to get more different personnel in there. But the head coach, just like any real leader, it starts from the top there.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

So he kind of just set the tone?

SPEAKER_00 24:08

He set the tone.

SPEAKER_03 24:09

Ah.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Yeah. And no BS would be one way to describe it. Right. But um he said he brought each player in that had been there. I've been, you know, there for nine years. He goes, Nick, kind of simple. Either make your kicks or you don't. I don't know anything about kicking. You make your kicks, you'll be here. You don't. I've got six phone numbers right here. Was that motivating for you? I loved it. It's very simple. Shut up, do your job, right? Deliver, be dependable for your team. Right. And uh and we started go going to the playoffs after one year, and we and it would didn't stop. And the games mattered then. It's a you know when you're hitting, let's say in baseball the equivalent, you know, you're hitting 380, but your team's only won 20% of its games. Right. The games don't matter much, but when you're in the playoffs and you're you're beating most of your teams. Right. Like during the 80s, we hardly ever beat the Raiders consistently. Marty came in, and this is a good little story. He'd say, Men, because the Raiders are supposed to be a dirty team anyway. He said, Men, it's very simple. They're gonna cheap shot you, they're gonna cheap shot you every game, but don't react. That's because it's always the guy that reacts that gets the penalty. Like 99% of the time, it's the guy that reacts. He said, Take their number, and later in the game, when you have your shot, you have my permission.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

When the refs aren't looking?

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Well, I suppose. Hopefully, when they're not looking. We beat the Raiders 21 out of 22 games. So he gave the players a way to not feel like they were giving up their manhood, whatever macho, you know, self-image, you know, that you were. And macho is not necessarily bad. I mean, you're it's mono a mano on the field. Right. And um kickers don't have to worry about that too much. But the other positions, that's it's mono a mano for almost every single player. Yeah. And there's a lot of trash talking that goes on. Very creative trash talking, too.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

I bet well, and you probably didn't hear as much that on the line like right before, or oh, if you ever watch receivers and defensive backs, they are talking the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Before they go, after they go, they're trying to psych out the other guy. Yep. Very creative. There's an art form to it. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:24

In hockey, they call that chirping. I don't know what they call it in football.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Oh, trash talking. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

So, how do you think you lasted so long in your position? Was it the mental or you're just better than everyone else physically? What was it?

SPEAKER_00 26:42

I think just persistence is so important to everybody in life, period. And you're only 23. I'm a little older. But persistence is still always important to deal with adversity, et cetera. And that's what it's all about. And I think it was the best thing to get rejected because I never took being on the team for granted. I'd love the work. I worked for three presidents in the offseason. I worked for four U.S. senators, I worked for Elizabeth Dole in the Department of Transportation. So I'd go back to Washington, February, March, April, May.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

I worked for Tom Eagleton, so I didn't care about party, Republicans, Democrats, as who's who's a problem solver. And um Richard Bowling, the chairman of the House Rules Committee. So it was a great way to stay balanced to say, you know, there are other things that are important.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

Right. And you used that also after you left. I mean, you were developing yourself as you came to the end of the career. I'm sure it's you didn't quite know when you were gonna leave, if you were gonna get injured or just retire on your own, right? Or get cut. Or get cut. I didn't think of that part. Yeah. It's a cold business.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Yeah. And and but on the other hand, being comfortable with being held to that standard where you're very measurable. You know, you can make excuses at any position in sports, but a kicker, it either goes through or doesn't. It's not hand grenades. Right. It's not horseshoes. And you make it and nobody wants to hear your excuses.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Right. So you see most of the guys that after a kick, they kind of just shut up and but you still get the pat on the butt sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Women to ask about the pat on the butt a lot. It's very interesting. It's just women just stare at men's football pants a lot more than the men do. Let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

It's just little tidy white things. I really love those pants. They're just so stylish. They are tight.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

They are.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

Yeah, yeah. And you either look good in them or you don't.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

And they don't hide a whole lot.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

No, no, no, no. There's nothing left. R-rated.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

R-rated podcasts.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

All right. So now your career's done. Take me through what happened.

Poetry Harvard And Reinventing After Football

SPEAKER_03 28:46

So you had been working, you'd been preparing, but you went back to school and got a master's.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

I was actually I read a lot of poetry, Kim, and uh it's a really great thing for me because it's both left and right brain. It's organization and structure, rhyme and rhythm, and it's also creative. It's you know coming up with new ideas and new expressions, new new word phrases, etc. And uh it just balances me. And it's usually on a spiritual tone. Some of them are more goofy, right? But um like a limerick. So I was, yeah, I guess, but the I was invited to read my poetry at at Harvard. Um and I had started a program called Native Vision. After you retired. Right after I retired, literally. I almost played in the 2000 Super Bowl, and I just thought it's time. And so I went up there to read my poetry and met with the Harvard Native American program leader, a guy named Robin McClay, who's now I think ahead of the Visa Foundation, amazing people. And he said, you know, you should apply to the Kennedy School, to the mid-career program, because I'd worked, you know, eight different times in Washington.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

And I had to write six long essays and I had to uh you know take those tests, and I got in and I thought this is the way to end a career and move on. And we had 199 people in our class always taking calculus.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

I took that in high school. I took that in high school. It's hard stuff, and uh, I hadn't had any mathematics for a long time, economics, and then we got into you know advanced negotiations, nonprofit management, etc. And of course, you're working with great people too that are trying to make a difference in the world. So I really enjoyed that.

SPEAKER_03 30:31

Yeah, yeah. You you've you've had like a great ability to be around some fabulous people, and I think that makes a difference too. Yes. I mean, sometimes you don't have that opportunity. There's people that are watching this that didn't have that, they might have grown up, uh as Roger said, Roger Clemens, he said, you know, I grew up, my mother had to work super hard because they didn't have money. Yes. And others that grow up and they're like, you know, I just got my baseball mitt and I thought that we were, you know, rolling in money. And everybody's got a different story. And I think it really does mold you. You either can rest on it and say, Well, this is who I am because this is how I grew up, or you can say, I'm going to do better, or I'm gonna be like that.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

I'm gonna say something I never said aside before. My dad was, I didn't know how senior he was, but I will say in a second how senior it was. He was paid $45,000 a year at one point. We did not have a lot of money, but I was spoiled in the people that we got to meet and the and the schools we got to have to participate in. And that's more important. So when I say this phrase people use, you're in you're entitled, you're privileged. Well, okay, yeah, in many ways I was. And somebody's gotta be do something with it. Right. Do something with it. Right. And that's that's to me what motivates me. And I mean, I'm sure in the modeling industry, you were sometimes with great people and sometimes not so great people. Right. It's life, and you have to adapt to all of them.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

Thinking about buying a home, but not sure where to start? Jeff Schwartz at Altitude Home Loans makes the process simple. From application to closing, Jeff helps you find the best loan for your financial goals and keeps everything moving smoothly because the right team makes all the difference. Ready to get started? Apply today with Jeff at Altitude Home Loans. Well, and I grew up a tomboy. I was swimming five and a half hours a day, never looked at a makeup magazine, didn't know how to put it on. You see, didn't know anything about school? Oh, yeah. I was uh we were undefeated. I was a New York State champ. Wow. Yep, butterfly, backstory. Yeah, yeah. So for me, going into the modeling business, right? And I grew up performance-based, where it was my good grades, it was my fast swimming times, and yeah, being good for my parents. Right. And then I go to New York. Who cares if you're like a fast swimmer? Yeah. It was all just outside. But work ethic. Right. It was work ethic. But I spent my first two years in New York City crying all the time. Like, what's wrong with me? I don't fit in. I didn't understand.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

No. There you go. Well, there's an interesting thing. How long do we go through feeling an imposter, feeling like I don't fit in? Right. And I certainly didn't feel completely like I feel fit in. Right. You know, I mean, my first offseason, I'm working in the in the uh for Richard Bowling, who is the historian of Congress. He was a great historian. He was the chairman of the House Rules Committee. The House Rules Committee makes all the rules on debate because there are 435 congressmen versus only 100 senators. So we have four times the legislation that can that has to be figured out, which is going to be the priority, how do you do amendments, who speaks, how long can they speak, etc. Um and it was uh very different, but uh but I loved that that change and I had to adapt to that office, right? I'm who's this football player? What does he know?

SPEAKER_03 33:59

Right, yeah, right, yeah. Sometimes you walk into a job and you just have to kind of wing it, right?

unknown 34:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

So there's another form of creativity. Yeah. Winging it, figuring out what's the role that you want from me.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Did you feel like you had to? I'm turning this around a little bit, but did you feel like you had to assume a role? Like you began to figure out here's what I'm gonna do, here's how I'm gonna come off.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

Well, what was different as a model, I think, from many other jobs was we were paid to be a blank canvas. And one day you could be made up, you know, beautifully, and the next day was nothing, and it was just raw, or if it was athletic, or and so every day was adaptable. You know, you never had the same hair makeup, you never weren't the same studio. I never had teammates, I traveled the world by myself.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Yeah, that's pretty hard. Yeah, I didn't have any point to rely because I've dated a few, you know, they have somebody who's managing managing them that might want to get in their pants. And then what do you do with that? Right? They're they're your best friend. Maybe they're not your best friend.

SPEAKER_03 35:02

Yeah, no, I know. Yeah, that's a whole other thing. Another story. Yeah, and you learn that very quickly when you first go to New York. It's like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 35:10

I walked out a lot. I walked out. I was at Studio 54 right after college. What year? My buddy Carlopp. This would have been 78, 79. I was there. And I'm dancing next to Brooke Shields, who must have been four, 15 years old or something. Right, right. And it was just so surreal, right?

SPEAKER_03 35:27

Yes, it was surreal back then to be at studio.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

And you're 15, 16 as a model or 14.

SPEAKER_03 35:32

Well, I went at 18. I was only in New York about a month, and I went with Kelly Emberg, who's another model, but we met Desi Arnez Jr. on the streets, and he took us to Studio 54. And the things we saw, but we stayed up until 5 in the morning at Studio 54, just drinking water, she and I. But the amazing things that we saw. Yes. We went down the basement. I mean, just it was just very interesting. And I remember calling, my dad was always got up early. So I called him at five in the morning. I'm like, Daddy, and he was just waking up, right? I'm like, I've been up all night. I was at Studio 54, which he didn't know from Buffalo. He didn't know what that was. But I described this whole meeting Desiernez Jr. and Lucille Ball was from where my dad grew up, outside of uh Jamestown, New York. So she grew up in Falconer. My dad was from Falconer. So yeah, the whole thing was just really neat that it was Lucy's son, you know. Incredible. Yeah, yeah. Anyways, back to you. So tell me now, you after after whatever, after after these jobs in DC, right, you didn't

Native Vision And Serving Native Youth

SPEAKER_03 36:41

stay there, obviously. You were here in in Scottsdale, Phoenix now. So how did you you you started native vision or you started working with them?

SPEAKER_00 36:49

In 96, so my best, these are how things you just, you know, God has ways, and they make sense later sometimes. But I just at the wedding of my best friend, my roommate in college, right, who was a doctor at that point at Johns Hopkins and Prostate Cancer, his wife was the new Johns Hopkins director of programming for the Center for American Indian Health. And at the post-wedding dinner, she said, Would you start a football camp for us? Because as I look at what we've done the last 20 years, it's all been you know really cold-blooded uh medical research, poking and prodding and needles everywhere, and and we need something that develops relationships. So I started it and I got 10 of my NFL buddies, and we started uh we had a reception at my house, and then we went up. And where were you living at the time? Chin Lee in Chan Cheney Estates. Where DC or here? Here. Oh, okay. I I had a house in Kansas City at that point too. We went up to Chin Lee, which is right near the four corners, and I got off the bus and no trees. And I just to this day I get emotional talking about it. Just remember just going, I gotta do this.

SPEAKER_04 38:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

And it was just a football camp. Two years later it was football and basketball and soccer. And uh we were on Oprah's, the Vest New Program for Native Youth. And and I think I felt because I'd left Kansas City and felt um felt like those roots I'd developed in community work in Kansas City. I thought I was gonna finish my career there, and I think that made me more susceptible to the idea of of having your roots or being homeless. And of course, with tribes, they've had their homes, you know, their sacred homes, ripped away from them, and they've moved thousands of miles. And uh it really hit home for me. And I got Robert Redford to narrate our video every year.

SPEAKER_03 38:44

How did you get that?

SPEAKER_00 38:45

Well, I the woman that had that had run my program for inner city youth in Kansas City, Phyllis Wallace, was best friends with with good friends, uh, the National YMCA, where she had been before, with a woman named Joyce Deep. Joyce Deep handled all of the social requests to Robert Redford. So he thought this is cool stuff. And he uh agreed to narrate the the the uh videos every year. So one year he just shot a river once through it, and I guess it had flooding, so they'd pushed back the they'd had to shoot, uh push back the shoots for like a month, which destroyed their budget, but it was a good film, as we know. But uh, we got the outtakes of him narrating this video, and so I got to listen to him, and uh I why people loved him and Paul Newman because they could always laugh at themselves. So you gotta be able to laugh at yourself. Hello. Um Native Americans have suffered from the highest rates of teenage suicide and pregnancy and addiction issues, etc. But there's hope on the horizon the horizon. Hello, everyone. This is Robert Redford. Pause. Yeah, Robert Redford. You haven't made a fucking good movie in 20 years. He said that? Who the hell are you? I just loved it. So anyway, of course, he did a retake. But uh that's that's Robert Redford.

SPEAKER_03 40:16

At least he got it out.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

I fell in love with the guy, you know, that sort of thing. And then we got you know, NBA players and Olympic champions in track. We became seven sports. Now we do 40 tribes. You're still doing it. 700 kids. I'm not doing it anymore. I did it for 20 years. Okay. Um, but I got it going. Yeah. Gave it a generation of time, and it it has its own roots, and it's I think it's helped contribute to just an added level of self-confidence for native youth. Which they need, that we're of value. No, they need hope. We weren't paid, right? We were paid spiritually. Yeah, yeah. Like, this is what needs to be done. You're important, you're just as important as any of us. Right. That's why I do my work with the homeless right here in Phoenix.

SPEAKER_03 40:59

Right, right. So you continue to do your speaking and you talk about mental toughness,

Handling Criticism And Owning Your Standard

SPEAKER_03 41:05

right? And being focused while distracted.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

And you also do a lot of while people are trying to distract us, yes. I don't know if you can be focused and distracted at the same time, but you have to discipline your mind. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure your profession more than most, you really had to dial in.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Yeah, and and the other thing is to me, it's a great analogy for leadership. Because no matter how good you are, you sign up for unfair criticism as well as deserved criticism. Right. And so you have to figure that out.

SPEAKER_03 41:38

Well, you have to take the good and weed through it and decide what you're gonna work on and what should just drop by the wayside, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:44

And as a kicker, everybody remembers when you miss. So I went to 87% starting in 1990. I had 24 field goals in a row, led the NFL on scoring. Next year, 21 field goals in a row, next year 22 for 24. Nobody had ever kicked at that level. And uh no one, no one else in the NFL was above 80%. I was at 87%. And I walked into a quick tip store, it's so clear to me. It's uh just off Blue Parkway, about two miles from the stadium, and I go in getting gas, I got some eggs and some orange juice, and the lady goes, Hey, I had what I call a porn store mustache back then, and so I was pretty identifiable. I did ads, local ads, for a clothing store called Peter's Clothiers back then. And um the lady goes, I know you. You're Nick Lowry, you're the kicker for the Chiefs. I saw you miss that field goal. What the hell is wrong with you? I could have made that kick. And people talk to you like that. People were well, not always, but uh but you have to, you know, that's just the way it is. People will stick in their memory. Where's the one thing that shows that they were just just like the rest of us? Right. You know? Right. And and so you what's your standard? Is it other people's opinions? Right. Or is I have a unique gift and a unique opportunity, and I just need to not miss any. But chances are I'm human.

SPEAKER_03 43:09

Yes, exactly. Well, and to me, words can either stick in you and you maul over them, or you just let them drop to the ground. I mean, because my business with the rejection and the criticism and oh, it was constant. Yes. I'm like, you're noticing and picking on something I never even thought of before. Right. Right? Like you were never, I was never self-conscious of it as a kid. I had great parents, I was busy swimming, I was in band, I was doing so much stuff. I was just felt value. I felt value, I felt valuable being in my home. And then you go to New York and you're like, you what? What what are you worried about? Like your hair or your hairline or your eyebrows or your lip is too thin. I mean, things they would come up with. And I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

Yeah. Just like whatever. But you did you did have this reservoir of self confidence from proving yourself to yourself, yes, of pushing. Yourself to be a record-setting swimmer.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Swartz was very instrumental in building my character. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

So if you're a beautiful girl but you don't have those references, you're probably more vulnerable.

SPEAKER_03 44:13

I didn't know I was a beautiful girl. Yeah. Because I was so busy doing other stuff. Yeah. My, you know, work and school and whatever it was. Anyways. Anyway. So

Fear Courage And Letting The Brain Work

SPEAKER_03 44:23

now you have written this great book. What precipitated this title?

SPEAKER_00 44:30

It's what it feels like when you're running on the field. I mean, I'm not sure if it's quite the same as when you're about to walk out on stage with some weird outfit that somebody's making you wear. Well, it's half the time we were half naked. Yeah. Right? Exactly. Um, and but I want people to understand that sort of vulnerability that you have to endure, transcend, get used to. And everybody has those those moments. And also to welcome risk and fear because courage comes out of fear. It doesn't come from no fear. Right. And build and build that backbone to keep coming back, to get better and better and get used to it. Watching Rory McElroy at the Masters last week, right? Yeah. And he's coming back for the second year in a row. And he said, interestingly, he said, you know, I just got to the point where I realized whatever's going to happen is going to happen, you know, and I'll deal with it. But, you know, it's just life. So he didn't project anything except I'm just going to do the best I can. So the analogy I draw, by the way, is when I'm looking at the ball, and this is this came to me after about 10 years, took a while. Right. Is as I'm approaching the ball, I'm going to say, because you have to have your triggers that get your mind really extra locked in. Left foot, which would admit my left foot, my plant foot was right at the target. The target, the goalposts are sort of like your purpose. Right. Right. And right here, the ball is your daily work ethic, whatever it is. And then I would say, as I'm about to kick it, explode. That worked for me, which was go for it. Don't be try to be too perfect. And the analogy is also true for Roger Clemens and for pitching, because when the manager says, we need to do not throw it inside what's in your head. Oh, yeah. Right. And then you start to try to be too perfect. And the way the brain works, I've done a lot of work looking at the brain. I had a show on Sirius Satellite called Head Games for three years, 800 shows. But the uh conscious brain is crude. And the major muscle groups that don't have any dexterity and subtlety take over. Ah. And that's not what you want because your explosiveness is everything. And it doesn't mean you're trying to kill it, but you are being aggressive. And that's when the synapses in your brain, who are so much smarter than you, but they're the product of discipline and hard work for hundreds and hundreds of thousands of kicks, take over. So the sub the the subconscious brain, the non-conscious brain, takes over. Yeah. Like you know how to throw, you know how to, maybe after a while, how to run the walk the runway, even when you're not feeling your best. Right. Um, and as a kicker, that really helps. So I went from 77% to 87%. And my game-winning field goals got better too. Because if you're thinking about the importance of a kick, you're in trouble. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:16

Yeah, you talked about that already.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:19

Yeah. That's it's amazing. Anyways, I love it. I love how you're feeding back into others. I love how you've just taken what you've learned and really, I mean, using it literally in so many ways.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

I would love to also add that, you know, one of the biggest points in the book is I do make it. I beat out Jan Stener. A year later, I'm on 2020, this thing with featuring three kickers, the loneliest player in football, and what it's like as a kicker. I'm in Sports Illustrated. I go to the Pro Bowl, which then was a real game. I kicked the game-winning field goal, and I'll never forget going into the locker room because there are 17 Hall of Famers. You know, there's Earl Campbell and Dan Fouts and uh Jack Lambert and all these really legendary players. And we're all celebrating in the locker room, and there are 10 TV cameras, and it's it's surreal, it's a bucket list thing. It's not the Super Bowl, but it's still pretty cool. Right. And it's sort of another, I think, statement that I was meant, I I belonged. Right. You know, after being rejected all those times. I didn't just, it wasn't just a flash in the pan. But then as the locker room emptied, I just remembered now. I just felt lonely. I was like, I've got no one to celebrate. I got my buddy Bob Grupp, who was my teammate, and we'd actually been with the Jets two years earlier, and then he made it with the Chiefs,

Share Success Then Give It Away

SPEAKER_00 48:43

and now he was in in Hawaii, but no one else, I had no one else to share it with. And I remember just saying, I am never gonna make that mistake again. I'm gonna invite mom and dad, my twin sister, my twin brothers. Right. And we'll celebrate together, all my other friends, whoever wants to come. And I kicked two more game-winning field goals in the Pro Bowl, but they were there. Right. And I think a lot of people sabotage themselves because they didn't intentionally make sure that that they would, as part of their goals, share it. Who am I sharing it with? Right. And uh, and so they get to the mountaintop, the mountaintop sucks.

SPEAKER_03 49:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

Because it's such a disappointment, you know? Um, and that's that's just so important. And I I think that also goes into why I started doing work in service because my parents served in World War II. My dad was a reconnaissance pilot. My mother literally spoke the best German in England. She studied at Oxford, and she was sent to interrogate literally Hitler's record keepers, and then kept a secret, which I found out later from a mutual friend who um had promised her to not tell her children. My mother was sent to document the death camps in Germany at the end of the war and take, you know, have a photographer and and film it and then present about it for 18 months to people that were many of whom didn't want to believe it. And so my parents served deeply, they were imbued with that.

SPEAKER_03 50:13

But they had mental your mother had such mental toughness too to me.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

My mother was tough as you and yet very graceful, right? And um, and so that's another part of the book is simply use your success to help other people. Yes, you know, it may be just helping one person, right? But it makes it worth it, yes, no matter what. And you get God gives us gifts so that we get better.

SPEAKER_03 50:34

Yeah, yeah. And my fascination is that you can go from a scholar to a kicker to then serving and helping others, and I can go from a model to whatever else I did, and then now we're all here, and so we're here to feed into the younger group.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the older group sometimes too. I mean, sometimes your example helps another person go, you know, I was playing golf every day and it was fun, but it was kind of empty. I had this, I heard from a number of my friends that have come to Champions for the Homeless and say, Man, I I know what I was missing now. Yeah, and and I think you get better at it too. Better at organizing events to help whoever. And I I love that. I mean, it's creative to me.

SPEAKER_03 51:18

Right. Well, that's a gift. I mean, that's a gift. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, God. You have lots of gifts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:23

So thank you for giving back. Well, thank you. Thank you for giving me time.

SPEAKER_03 51:27

Yeah, and for being on the show. So thank you. Thanks for watching the show. If you have any questions for me or you want any more information, go to Kim Alexis.com.